Rod/reel for spinning metals

[Scienceman]

HI FR community,

I haven't spun metals off the beach or rocks since I was a teenager (40 years ago!) and want to get back into it before I'm too old and frail. Also want to chuck a few SP for jew so need a bit of grunt but dont want to go too large with reel and line to sacrifice distance. I notice most of the medium-higher spinning reels bring in ~100cm per turn. Mostly it doesn't seem to matter the reel size, the bigger they are, the lower the ratio so the total line recovered seems about the same from a 4000 - 10,000 size. Is this enough for most metals in the 30 - 100g range? The next aspect is weight, the lighter the better (i'm getting older remember 😂)

I now have a well paying job and like good gear that lasts. A 15 yo Twin Power 4000 is still my best reel and I think I can get the 2020 model Twin Power 5000 SWXG past the finance controller (just). It seems to tick all the boxes. The only other similar option would be the Catalina 5000H, but its a few $ more again and I cannot see much additional benefit. 

So just to clarify my questions -

* Is 100cm per turn enough speed for most metals?

* Any feedback or suggestions on the reel, especially the TP or Cat.?

* Rods I assume a 9'-10', 8 - 15kg or about? 

* Line - is 20lb braid too heavy and might restrict distance? 

Thanking you all in advance 👍

[Bass assassin]

You’re pretty much spot on with the set up. I use a 4000 Twin Power and a Shimano Starlo Stix shore spin (9ft, 5-10kg) It’s rated to throw 10-35gr, but I throw 40gr metals no worries at all. I think I’m using either 12 or 15lb braid and either 20-30lb leader, depending on where I’m fishing. This set up holds up for solid Salmon and decent Kings off the rocks. It’ll be a work out, but you’ll get them in. I’ve used this set up for plastics off the rocks and beach too. 
I’m not sure what the Twin Power pulls in for each revolution, I just wind faster if needs be. 😂

Hope this helps you a little bit. 
 

Cheers, 

Adam. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Bass assassin

[kingie chaser]

You can catch a lot of different species of the rocks so depending on the target will depend on the gear & at times 2 set ups could be needed.

E.g. Your not often going to land succesfully a 6+kg or metre'y kingfish on 20lb braid unless you going to up the leader significantly & then its a luck game as well.

Imo what your descibing to me is a light weighted set up for rocks which allround should be ok but get into some decent fish & you will be toasted pretty quickly, off the beach would be ok.

I've been watching some youtubes today where guys are using 80lb braid & 120lb leader of the rocks & still getting toasted!

 

Rocks & beach are 2 different set up imo.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by kingie chaser

[JonD]

I bought my son a Daiwa coastal 802 for Xmas and have to say it's an incredibly easy rod for flicking lures especially 40g. The rod is fun on small fish of 500g right up to handling fish of 15-20kg so far. He even brings it in the boat as I can't get him to use anything else since he started using this.

The reel he's using with this rod is a pioneer which is performing very well. I believe these reels have better waterproofing than big name brands and so far Ive  seen nothing to argue that point.

In terms of retrieve I personally prefer lower geared reels for the times we hook something bigger and simply reel quicker if I want to work a lure faster. It's pretty easy to retrieve to fast where the lure simply skims the surface even with low geared reels. Anyway not trying to say you should get either of these, simply I would rather use his outfit than my jigging master shore game and twinpower costing three times more!!!

 

[JonD]

Just to add that little reel managed to knock over several kings of around 90cm through last summer using suffix 20lb 13/1 braid which has so far not let either of us down using it on several reels. I did spool the reel with dangam colour change 20lb first but couldn't stop kings using it (lost to many lures )where the 20lb suffix had no problem.

 

[Scienceman]

Thanks for the feedback.

JonD - certainly cannot argue with those results. Was that rod a Saltist as I couldn't find a Coastal  802. Will also look into the Pioneer but gearing or more accurately line recovery will impact usability as I don't have the stamina of a 20yo anymore. 

Kingue chaser - yeah, I'm looking for a lighter combo that won't tire me out. . There will always be fish bigger than the gear your using. I do have a giant killer - Silstar TraverseX, 10ft, 10-15kg + Ecoda Hornet HS12000 spooled with 50lb braid and 80lb leader 😉(Spinning for more than 15min with this knackers me out so mostly used for bait fishing)

Bass assassin - ha, I have the TP 4000 too (now ~15yo and going strong) and the same rod but 6-8kg and used for whiting off the beach with a lighter reel. Will definitely have a look at the 5-10kg model. 

[Rob81]

The Twinpower SW isn't a 2020 model I believe. The 2020 model is the Twinpower FD.

The SW would be more heavy duty compared to the FD. Also weight wise, the 5k SW is around 420g, whilst the FD is 260g. The catalina 5000h is probably the heaviest at 605g, but in saying that, the 5k size Daiwa is significantly larger and not really a fair comparison against those other reels. What you're probably looking for, in the equivalent of the shimanos size, would be the 3500h catalina.

Between both TP's (SW/FD), either one would be suffice to do that job. The decision between either would depend if you want heavy duty or something lighter. Personally I look for a seabass setup, where the Twinpower FD would be ideal. However, seabass setups are typically 10-50g lure weight range but even then, casting metals you'd be look at around the 20-35g weight range, which probably lower for what you're looking to cast.

This type of setup would allow you to also cast SP's. Currently I've been using 1/2 jigheads on mine, but again it all depends on the setup you end up with.

[Rebel]

Super photos JonD

[Rebel]

i use a Daiwa demon blood 9'6" rod with a Fin-Nor lethal 100 for the beach and it is Lethal.

I also have ABU Veritas 9' rod with a Fin-Nor 80 for casting metals at the beach.

The reels are majic and not expensive.

Cheers.

[kingie chaser]

3 minutes ago, Rebel said:

i use a Daiwa demon blood 9'6" rod with a Fin-Nor lethal 100 for the beach and it is Lethal.

I also have ABU Veritas 9' rod with a Fin-Nor 80 for casting metals at the beach.

The reels are majic and not expensive.

Cheers.

Still waiting for a fishing report, never seen one 

Edited August 24, 2020 by kingie chaser

[Rebel]

If you must know 99% catch and release. As I said before to each his own. A lot of Raider's do not do fishing reports.

When you have been fishing as long as I have it doesn't matter.

[Scienceman]

Hey Rob81, yeah my Twin Power 4000 SW is ~15yo so very different to current models and was sourced directly from Japan. Only 4.2:1 ratio which is why it only retrieves ~70cm per turn. Nice and powerful for jigging and live baiting from the boat but not so good from the shore. Also isn't a particularly deep spool. I have confirmed that Shimano have supply issues and I would need to order and wait until Dec/Jan for the C5000 XG FD ($750)

Had a good long chat at my local Freddys who suggested also looking into the 19 Certate 5000DXH ARK for $750. The Certate certainly seems the equal of the Twin Power and might in some ways be superior. They recommended matching this with a Shimano Colt Sniper BB 9'6" (max 60g) for $250. This combo is a fair bit more $ than I was planning on but after doing some internet research it looks like a sweet set-up that should last me for many, many years.  

Think I will keep researching, enjoy the anticipation and then go down tomorrow and purchase

[Rob81]

Yes the certate LT is also a very nice reel and the 2020 models are LT range where they change their number sizing. Comparing the two, TP FD 5k & Certate LT, there is only 35g difference but this could be due to the knob on the certate. The only difference between the normal model and Ark models is the knob.

The certate LT feels very close to the exist LT, and many ppl have choosen to get the certate over exist of this reason.

Both have same gear ratio's, however the certate pulls in just that little bit more line per crank. It also has 1 more bearing and on paper has 12kg drag over 11kg of the TP.

Regarding rods, there's too many options on those these days. I've heard ok things with the Colt Sniper but havent used or felt one to know much more.

Anywhere close to the 100cm mark on line retrieval I think is ideal. too fast and sometimes the fish cant hit, too slow and sometimes you snag on the lower ledges of some rock fishing locations.

All the best with your purchase. New toys are always exciting to play with.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Rob81

[Scienceman]

Thanks. I'll post feedback when I have used it for a while. Planning a week road trip to the NSW south coast so plenty of opportunity to spin the rocks and beaches down south. I really like the monocoque body and the benefits it brings. I feel that the TP tries to make the most of a pretty std internal design with small tech innovations but no big leaps. 

Pretty much going by recommendation and web info on the rod. It seems to match the reel and specs for the intended uses at a fair price so time will tell. 

[cmhcfish]

On 8/25/2020 at 4:25 PM, Scienceman said:

Thanks. I'll post feedback when I have used it for a while. Planning a week road trip to the NSW south coast so plenty of opportunity to spin the rocks and beaches down south. I really like the monocoque body and the benefits it brings. I feel that the TP tries to make the most of a pretty std internal design with small tech innovations but no big leaps. 

Pretty much going by recommendation and web info on the rod. It seems to match the reel and specs for the intended uses at a fair price so time will tell. 

 

These days reels are figured out by gearing material quality, body material and drag. Both of the big makers Shimano and Daiwa have taken different approaches around this:

Daiwa in the last few years =

"Light Tough" flagship models (Exist/Certate) = super compact body with larger than previous generation gear. If you compare it now to your 15 yr old TP, it's probably a bit smaller/lighter but they can run heavy drag all day long, enough so that hardcore offshore fishos use them as their lighter offshore jigging reel (targetting 10-15 kg demersals or seriolas).

The cons is magnetic oil seal, and both high end models (Exist and Certate) are basically non-DIY serviceable as a result (you need a tool to open the body + replenish the mag seal oil + pressure seal it again, not possible to DIY at home).

The catalina is a older (but still proven) heavy saltwater game reel, a 3.5k/4k is what you're looking for if you want to keep it small, these were what the previously mentioned boaties were using prior to the certate/exist LT reels. Very tough gearing and good drag, but also has magseal so DIY is limited.

Daiwa's tech is consistent as you can see what I've mentioned has been incorprated into the Saltiga 2020 range.

Shimano =

Focus is more on drag smoothness and gearing redesign to achieve the same level of performance as before. However, their technology is more like improving on what they had previously (weight saving = redesign an old metal body so it uses the same metal, water proofing = incorporate different levels of sealing instead of just 1 rubber seal, but these are not really new innovations to me). They have 2 clear concepts

1) Reels designed with "sensitivity" in mind - Your 2020 TP falls into this category. Pretty much everything with "micromodule gears", not necessarily "light use" reels but anything that requires sensitivity, the gearing is cut with much smoother teeth and overall the reel feels much smoother and tight (to me, its better lure manipulation and sensitivity). They use these across the new small Stella FIs, a lot of the slow jig offshore reels (Ocea Jigger) etc. However, toughness remains to be seen after extended use.

2) Reels designed with "toughness" - Basically from the 2013 Stella/2014 Saragosa range. "Hagane" this and that (a lot of metal in the reel), usually carbon drag and tougher (non micromodule) gearing. The new 2020 Stella is a good example of this (they even go down to a 4k size, but cost is a fair bit more).

---------------------

Anyway, hopefully this allows you to make a better choice. If I was in your position I'd be looking at a Certate LT of some kind because its a compact, small but tough, metal bodied reel. With some good braid (these days you can fit a full 250-350+ or more metres of PE2 to 3 braid which is in the 30lb-40lb range) you'd pull in any salmon/tailor/have a chance on lighter pelagics.

Second choice wait for 2020 Saragosa 5000, not super light but very manageable, very "gutsy" and on you don't need to baby them too much due to the design (I've had my 10k gosa since 2015 and its had a harsh life rock bashing, beach fishing, downrigging and cops a flogging from the elements, it's only ever had 1 bearing replacement and still feels super solid and smooth to wind) 

Rods are easier, theres way too many brands, just find something around 9-10 foot that suits 60-80g (should have enough tip to flick smaller or go larger). Daiwa's Seabass range is a good starting point.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by cmhcfish

[Scienceman]

Thanks for the info cmhcfish it correlates with my research. I prefer to have professional servicing of high end reels so the mag-seal isnt an issue with me, although I expect I will have put up with it taking quite a few months to get done. 

OK, just to round out this post, I got the Certate LT 5000D-XH (high speed model) with 2.5 PE + Coltsniper BB 1000M (10', 60g max) for just over a grand. Had a week away on the south coast casting metals and hard bodies (40 - 65g) . Many casts for only a few salmon but VERY happy with the combo. So light and powerful. Cast distance was ~70 - 80m so happy with that. If I improve my technique and dropped to 2.0 PE I expect a few more meters. I thought I might need the MH rather than M rod and almost did a swap before I used it. Very glad I stuck with the Medium version and expect it will manage lighter lures / SP's which I will use more often than heavier. Will be a great single combo to take to the beach before sunrise and lob out a big SP, then something for tailor and finish up with a few worm baits to take home a feed of whiting if a jew or tailor wont play.