Electric start faulty

[Guest Guest123456789]

Hi Folks,

i need some help with my outboard. The electric start doesn’t work when cold. The pull start does. Weirdly, when the engine is running, if I stop it then try the electric start straight away it works. Then if I turn the motor off and try again it doesn’t work. It’s a 2 stroke Suzuki DT30.

The rest of my electrics work fine.

Any ideas?

[zmk1962]

Check the battery that its holding charge >12V and when you start the battery voltage does not drop below 10.5V.

If battery is ok. Suggest you clean the battery terminals and the outboard battery connectors with a bit of emery and reseat the battery connections.

I had a similar thing on my Tohatsu 40hp electric start.  First case was a battery on its way out that was not working correctly under crank load when cold. The next time was there was some corrosion buildup between the battery post and connection. It worked when warm. But not when cold.

Cheers Zoran

[noelm]

What does it do, click, whir or just plain dead?

[Fab1]

Check that the starter solenoid terminals under the cowl are clean and tight while you're there too.

Could be a sticky starter bendix gear too.(The small gear on starter and shaft).

[Guest Guest123456789]

1 hour ago, noelm said:

What does it do, click, whir or just plain dead?

Plain dead

[noelm]

OK, I guess it a forward control motor? (Not a tiller steer) next time it's "dead" turn the key to the start position and "jiggle" the gear lever a bit, back and forth to make sure it's not the neutral switch out of adjustment. Then let us know what happened, and you can go further with voltage checks at the starter, do you have a meter and know how to use it?

[zmk1962]

It’s a tiller steer Noel. There’s a picture in Luke’s DIY live tank post. 
cheers Zoran 

[noelm]

OK, there will still be some kind of "start in gear" protection, the same concept, but no gear lever to "jiggle" might need a bit of investigation to find it though.

[Guest Guest123456789]

Thanks @noelm @zmk1962 @Fab1 Based on your advice I’ve started troubleshooting the battery. I think that is the problem because I also got a ‘low voltage’ warning on my sounder.

ive cleaned the terminals, topped up the water levels (quite low) with demineralised water and put the multi stage charger to it. It should be fully charged by morning at which point I’ll see if it starts.

@noelm I don’t have a multimeter but will buy one if it’s still not working. @Fab1 I will also take the cowling off and go through the checks you mentioned too. 

@noelmThere is a forward, reverse and neutral - it’s definitely in neutral.

it’s a century lead acid battery that’s 5 years old. I’ve looked after it but maybe 5 years is about the lifespan?

[zmk1962]

Glad you’ve made some progress and the suggestions were of some help. For comparison I’ve got 10yrs out of a century marine battery that was not left to go flat. In the end my mech and I decided to replace it because we were not sure of the life span of the plastic casing - even though electric performance was fine. 
cheers Zoran 

[noelm]

Battery life can't be determined, some last for years and years, some fail in a couple of years, some just slowly lose capacity.

[zmk1962]

Luke, if you have access to another working healthy battery it may be worthwhile to hook the motor to that battery and test start. That would be one way to eliminate the battery as the cause. 
cheers Zoran 

[antonywardle]

I've got spare batteries if you want them luke

 

[Guest Guest123456789]

@zmk1962 great idea

I have a dual battery set up with a switch like thisthe options are:

off

Both

battery 1

battery 2

i tried kicking it over off Both, 1 and 2 settings, thinking that battery 2 would work if battery 1 was faulty. Didn’t work. I think when I wired in a switch panel I did something to prevent the outboard from being cranked by the electric battery somehow.

I disconnected and swapped each battery for the other as per your recommendation. Electric start now cranks the outboard and the dodgy battery powers the electric  

Thanks @zmk1962love your work thanks also @noelm and @Fab1

I used to trickle charge the crank/house battery after every use but stopped doing it over the last 6 months and have only topped up the electric battery (lesson learnt).

So the dodgy battery I’ll see how it goes with the electric only. If it karks it I’ll replace it - otherwise I’ll see if I can get another year then replace both when I complete my bi annual outboard service.

[noelm]

Unless you are very familiar with simple 12v circuits, it's easy to get bamboozled and wire switches like that up wrong, seen it dozens of times.

[Guest Guest123456789]

100% agree @noelm hence why I had the dealer install it using one of his guys

[zmk1962]

1 hour ago, flatheadluke said:

@zmk1962 great idea

I have a dual battery set up with a switch like thisthe options are:

off

Both

battery 1

battery 2

i tried kicking it over off Both, 1 and 2 settings, thinking that battery 2 would work if battery 1 was faulty. Didn’t work. I think when I wired in a switch panel I did something to prevent the outboard from being cranked by the electric battery somehow.

I disconnected and swapped each battery for the other as per your recommendation. Electric start now cranks the outboard and the dodgy battery powers the electric  

Thanks @zmk1962love your work thanks also @noelm and @Fab1

I used to trickle charge the crank/house battery after every use but stopped doing it over the last 6 months and have only topped up the electric battery (lesson learnt).

So the dodgy battery I’ll see how it goes with the electric only. If it karks it I’ll replace it - otherwise I’ll see if I can get another year then replace both when I complete my bi annual outboard service.

Glad you got it working and it was a relatively simple fix that did not involve any motor repairs. 

Personally I moved away from having a separate house battery years ago ... the way I set up a dual battery system,  is that everything runs off the battery that is switched online... and battery 2 is a spare.  Or everything runs of both batteries (so you can charge both batteries on the way out and then switch to just 1 for the day keeping the other as spare). Some folks may say that you are prone to get electrical noise on your electronics if you run everything off one battery, but a big (>10A) suppressor from Jaycar (about $15) stops all that. After all that's how every car with 1 battery is wired. 

There are more complicated set ups with automatic switchover and VSRs, but I like to keep as simple as possible on the boat.

I'm just busy at moment, but if you're interested I'll PM you tonight  a simple wiring diagram that shows 2 batteries, the switch, the suppressor , the motor, and the electronics circuit (both positive and negative wires). It's a simple mod to what you have.

Cheers Zoran

Edited February 1, 2021 by zmk1962

[Guest Guest123456789]

18 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

Glad you got it working and it was a relatively simple fix that did not involve any motor repairs. 

Personally I moved away from having a separate house battery years ago ... the way I set up a dual battery system,  is that everything runs off the battery that is switched online... and battery 2 is a spare.  Or everything runs of both batteries (so you can charge both batteries on the way out and then switch to just 1 for the day keeping the other as spare). Some folks may say that you are prone to get electrical noise on your electronics if you run everything off one battery, but a big (>10A) suppressor from Jaycar (about $15) stops all that. After all that's how every car with 1 battery is wired. 

There are more complicated set ups with automatic switchover and VSRs, but I like to keep as simple as possible on the boat.

I'm just busy at moment, but if you're interested I'll PM you tonight  a simple wiring diagram that shows 2 batteries, the switch, the suppressor , the motor, and the electronics circuit (both positive and negative wires). It's a simple mod to what you have.

Cheers Zoran

Thanks @zmk1962 definitely interested in the wiring diagram - I’m of a mind to re-wire the boat myself so I understand how it works. The 4 way switch panel is a bit of a workaround I’d like to fix and also add some other odds and end (strip lights, underwater light, stereo etc). Thankfully with my boat there is an auxiliary pull start - if I were offshore without that I could have gotten into strife and I thought I had an auxiliary battery as well. I guess I could have swapped the batteries at sea but in a bit of a swell it’s not something I’d like to try!

[zmk1962]

Ok. I will work those into the wiring diagram as well. 
cheers Z

[Guest Guest123456789]

@zmk1962 bear in mind the electric motor draws a lot of current - user manual suggests to have a stand alone 12 volt battery - I guess to give heaps of grunt to the propellor. I’d hate to pump up the stereo and have the spot lock fail 

[Fab1]

Good stuff getting it sorted with Zorans help mate.Champion Z.👍

[antonywardle]

happy to come and give you a hand if you want it Luke

Take a portable jumpstart with you when you go. Cheap insurance

and you can use it on your car if you leave the lights on at the boat ramp!

[kingie chaser]

On 1/31/2021 at 6:59 PM, flatheadluke said:

topped up the water levels (quite low) with demineralised water and put the multi stage charger to it. It should be fully charged by morning at which point I’ll see if it starts.

Personally Im not keen on batteries you need to top up & prefer the maintanance free models.

 

Also its a good idea if a battery hasnt had good charge & discarge cycles to put it on a charger that has a desulfation cycle on it every now & then, it can prolong the batteries life.

 

But then again if your constantly over discharging then your also reducing the number of possible cycles as well.

Edited February 1, 2021 by kingie chaser

[Fab1]

I'm still running the original 9yr old battery running motor,sounder,nav lights,and interior lights.I wonder how much longer it will last?🤔 I'll wait to see and try out the pull start.