Fishing insights from photos

[Little_Flatty]

This is a little side project I am working on. I work in the data space, which in itself is an all-consuming passion, so combining this with my fishing was always inevitable.

Lately I have been diligently photographing/measuring almost every fish I catch, with geo-location turned on. Like this:

I do this as it is a simple way of recording my trips. After each trip, I process the photos with a simple script, which extracts the date/time I took the photo, along with the GPS coordinates from the EXIF data associated with the picture. I am manually recording the sizes of the fish, but automating the sizing will be a machine learning project for me when I get the free time.

With a little work, this promises to be an extremely rich data source. For instance, using the latitude/longitude + time and an API from the likes of Willyweather, I can work out stats like:

• Tide (rising, falling, time to next high, time to next low, time from last high, time from last low etc)
• Weather
• Amount of rainfall within the catchment
• Amount of light
• and much, much more

What is good about this method is I can go back and retrospectively add insights as I dream them up.

I haven't yet got around to the most interesting aspects to analyse. This is the very nature of data work; the boring stuff needs to get done first (which I still find quite fun). However, here are some insights I have from the data I collected.

Over the past two and a bit months, I have caught 63 fish, 27 of which were legal sized. It is interesting that most of the bream I catch are legal whilst more than half the flatties I catch are undersized. It is also insightful how disproportionately that flathead dominate my haul; apart from being relatively easy to catch, for some odd reason I really struggle to catch bream on lures in my local spots; I have less trouble catching them elsewhere. Nevertheless they are very common in my area; throw out an unweighted strip of slimey mackerel and you'll catch one in minutes. This is a problem that has intrigued me and I will be seeking a few Raider bream luring experts to join me for some sessions this year:

You can see below that I'm fishing fairly consistently and getting a fish or two most sessions:

The majority of these fish are flathead, with a smattering of bream and the ever-present undersize tailor pestering me in most locations. You might note that my catch numbers are not cricket score results. Mostly this is because most of my sessions are short (less than 2 hours), I fish 99% lures and like everyone I still have a way to go in my fishing skills development. I suspect that my sessions are about average for your regular parra river lure angler, which is indicative of how good the fishing is within the system if you put in the time. I'm definitely not unhappy with these figures.

I note that the Barramundi I caught has been marked as legal. It wouldn't be in QLD, but I was able to take this fish in NSW. In any case it is an outlier.

Now to the size of the fish I catch. This chart is a little bit biased because initially I didn't put any clearly undersized fish on the brag mat. I have now changed that practice! Each data point is an individual fish. All that said, if I catch 100 undersized reddies, none of them will end up on the brag mat (and I'd probably move spot by the third one 🤣) and only a few undersized tailor will be recorded, because photography/measurement  time = wasted fishing time.

 

There are going to be some other sources of bias in my analysis, because I can only fish at certain times of the day, but of late I've been fishing mostly mornings and quite consistently at that. So I cover most tides, moon phases and weather conditions, especially in my local spots. That might change as the year evolves as education/family/work commitments require me in various locations and take up my time. But this will be a good source of entertainment to me whenever I'm off the water!

I'll update this thread as I extract more features and insights from the data.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Little_Flatty

[masterfisho7]

Sounds like a good idea to me one top post 

[dirvin21]

I keep catch records but you definitely take it to a whole new level

[big Neil]

Hey Little Flatty. Thank you for your very descriptive post. verryyy interesting.

What with all the info gained from Fishraider AND your technological approach to catching fish, the poor fish have very little chance of escaping your efforts.

Don't take this as a criticism, for it is not... but I find it very interesting how peoples' minds work. Your mind appears to be very analytical, continually searching for better, clearer understanding of the process. On the other hand there's the old guy who has fished all of his life and based his approach on "gut instinct" and what he can remember. I understand that each is working within their capabilities, needs, desires and each would be successful. Just fascinating that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

bn

[Mike Sydney]

That’s exceptional and I tell you what it takes some diligence to be measuring the undersized fish. I also keep a log by capturing photos but only bother measuring those that feel brag-worthy. 

Interestingly, I note an absence of whiting in your log. I suspect after your recent topwater session with @DerekD that may change soon!

[Fab1]

I know how many undersized fish I've caught by how much bait I've gone through and how broke I am.It never changes so I remember.😉

[Little_Flatty]

2 hours ago, big Neil said:

Hey Little Flatty. Thank you for your very descriptive post. verryyy interesting.

What with all the info gained from Fishraider AND your technological approach to catching fish, the poor fish have very little chance of escaping your efforts.

Don't take this as a criticism, for it is not... but I find it very interesting how peoples' minds work. Your mind appears to be very analytical, continually searching for better, clearer understanding of the process. On the other hand there's the old guy who has fished all of his life and based his approach on "gut instinct" and what he can remember. I understand that each is working within their capabilities, needs, desires and each would be successful. Just fascinating that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

bn

Oddly enough, I'm an intuitive angler myself. My analytical focus is my way of keeping myself honest in terms of my assumptions and theories, which are often wrong! I also take great joy in finding out things I didn't realise through pure observation.

41 minutes ago, Mike Sydney said:

That’s exceptional and I tell you what it takes some diligence to be measuring the undersized fish. I also keep a log by capturing photos but only bother measuring those that feel brag-worthy. 

Interestingly, I note an absence of whiting in your log. I suspect after your recent topwater session with @DerekD that may change soon!

Yes, interesting that whiting are conspicuously absent. As I report more, @DerekD will know whether or not I'm using surface lures. Maybe I need to confiscate my plastics for a bit  

[Isaac Ct]

Nice log @Little_Flatty, the diagrams will be interesting to see after a couple of months of different water temps and seasons. And you can see what days the flattie's prefer in your flattie 'hole'. Really interesting and it is sure to help you. 

[Green Hornet]

That's as thorough as it gets, great job.

I've been keeping a diary for over 40 years. Started out in a book and graduated to an Excel spreadsheet. It definitely helps to often decide where to go and when.

[Isaac Ct]

1 hour ago, Green Hornet said:

That's as thorough as it gets, great job.

I've been keeping a diary for over 40 years. Started out in a book and graduated to an Excel spreadsheet. It definitely helps to often decide where to go and when.

Might have to pinch your Basin secrets in the years to come🤣.

[Rebel]

Super story. Well done.

[Green Hornet]

42 minutes ago, Isaac Ct said:

Might have to pinch your Basin secrets in the years to come🤣.

Good luck with that 😆

My mate up the road has been trying to get his hands on them for years and I've hidden them on my PC.

Seriously though, anything you want to know, just send me a PM mate.

[Little_Flatty]

3 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

That's as thorough as it gets, great job.

I've been keeping a diary for over 40 years. Started out in a book and graduated to an Excel spreadsheet. It definitely helps to often decide where to go and when.

That would make for fascinating reading! If I were you I'd only keep these records in a spreadsheet on an offline computer, housed in a bunker deep in the Antarctic 🤣 Got to keep these secrets safe  

But then again, it's funny how a 'fishing secret' is mostly safe. I tell a lot of people exactly what I do and where/when I go, but very few actually follow through with it and do it themselves. I remember reading an excellent brewing book by one of the gents who started Batch Brewing, Chris Sidwa. He said something along the lines of: 'knowing what to do is easy, but having the discipline to execute this knowledge is not'. I think this applies very much to fishing.

2 hours ago, Isaac Ct said:

Might have to pinch your Basin secrets in the years to come🤣.

The way you are going Isaac, I don't think you need any help! And the things I'd do to see your diary when you are @Green Hornet's age (although I'll probably be lucky to be still alive by then). 

[Volitan]

I applaud your analytical approach little flatty.

Anecdote time : I grew up in NZ trout fishing and in until recent times the acclimatisation societies (who controlled the trout fishing via regulation and stocking) used to encourage anglers to keep diaries and send them in each year for data gathering. One statistic they drew from this was that in the Rotorua district people caught one fish per two hours of fishing and in Taupo district one fish per four hours. This was nonsense of course - it was mostly fly-only regulations and although the fishing was good catches were never high. We figured that the problem was only the older, retired locals bothered with diaries although the majority of fishing hours were done by people like us (out-of-towmers with limited local knowledge or choices). Although it was a fairly obvious source of bias they never bothered to correct it - perhaps they didn’t realise or perhaps it worked better for the local tourist industry if they just closed their eyes to it.

keep it up. I hope you report results each year. One thing I will be interested to see is changes to species composition over time - perhaps reflecting water conditions or fishing pressure or whatever.

[Volitan]

1 hour ago, Little_Flatty said:

But then again, it's funny how a 'fishing secret' is mostly safe. I tell a lot of people exactly what I do and where/when I go, but very few actually follow through with it and do it themselves. I remember reading an excellent brewing book by one of the gents who started Batch Brewing, Chris Sidwa. He said something along the lines of: 'knowing what to do is easy, but having the discipline to execute this knowledge is not'. I think this applies very much to fishing.

Very true observation. I’ve noticed this too. I’m usually pretty free with my ‘secrets’ but I don’t ever remember seeing anyone act on the advice Ive given them, Or maybe it has happened but so rarely that it doesn’t do me any harm.

[Isaac Ct]

1 hour ago, Little_Flatty said:

The way you are going Isaac, I don't think you need any help! And the things I'd do to see your diary when you are @Green Hornet's age (although I'll probably be lucky to be still alive by then). 

I don't really keep a diary, fishraider is my diary. But I do keep a list of what species I catch and the biggest of them.

[Green Hornet]

6 minutes ago, Isaac Ct said:

I don't really keep a diary, fishraider is my diary. But I do keep a list of what species I catch and the biggest of them.

@Isaac CtI strongly suggest you start one as it will prove invaluable in years to come.

Over the years I have enough recorded enough info to be able to accurately predict what species will be where in the river and when a certain species is most likely to be migrating up or down the beaches I fish. Some fish I catch year round, but the diary shows when and where they'll be at their best. Trust me, a diary will eventually improve your fishing to the stage that you'll rarely have a donut day.

Not only that, its great to go through it from time to time and rekindle faded memories. 

All the info I gave you a few months back on where to hit up the flatties in St Georges Basin came from my diary.

[Isaac Ct]

23 minutes ago, Green Hornet said:

@Isaac CtI strongly suggest you start one as it will prove invaluable in years to come.

Over the years I have enough recorded enough info to be able to accurately predict what species will be where in the river and when a certain species is most likely to be migrating up or down the beaches I fish. Some fish I catch year round, but the diary shows when and where they'll be at their best. Trust me, a diary will eventually improve your fishing to the stage that you'll rarely have a donut day.

Not only that, its great to go through it from time to time and rekindle faded memories. 

All the info I gave you a few months back on where to hit up the flatties in St Georges Basin came from my diary.

Ok, the first of February, 2022, I started a fishing diary. Sounds pretty snappy. Will log everything I can now. My dad has some spare textbooks, so I will write a hard copy then transcript it onto a Excel spreadsheet and will watch the progress unfold.

[Little_Flatty]

2 hours ago, Volitan said:

I applaud your analytical approach little flatty.

Anecdote time : I grew up in NZ trout fishing and in until recent times the acclimatisation societies (who controlled the trout fishing via regulation and stocking) used to encourage anglers to keep diaries and send them in each year for data gathering. One statistic they drew from this was that in the Rotorua district people caught one fish per two hours of fishing and in Taupo district one fish per four hours. This was nonsense of course - it was mostly fly-only regulations and although the fishing was good catches were never high. We figured that the problem was only the older, retired locals bothered with diaries although the majority of fishing hours were done by people like us (out-of-towmers with limited local knowledge or choices). Although it was a fairly obvious source of bias they never bothered to correct it - perhaps they didn’t realise or perhaps it worked better for the local tourist industry if they just closed their eyes to it.

keep it up. I hope you report results each year. One thing I will be interested to see is changes to species composition over time - perhaps reflecting water conditions or fishing pressure or whatever.

Apart from fishing, I've spent the past three years studying applied statistics at uni. The two big themes from my studies are: 1) Variation and diversity are the truly interesting aspects of almost anything and; 2) Watch your biases. Funnily enough, for a quantitative field, there are very limited ways of quantifying bias (you can quantify the 'bias' of a statistical model for instance) and the most important sources of bias are only uncovered by qualitative means.

What I am told is if you closely examine the experimental methodology, the samples taken and the analytical approach, you can find them. However, when I ask my professors about a method to detect bias (as you do when you are a pushy postgraduate student), I can only get a vague answers and more anecdotes. These are some of the most brilliant and hardworking intellectuals I have encountered in my life and even they find it hard. It seems that sometimes there is no substitute for experience and there is no method to the madness. The example you've given me here is a textbook experimental design problem.

56 minutes ago, Green Hornet said:

@Isaac CtI strongly suggest you start one as it will prove invaluable in years to come.

Over the years I have enough recorded enough info to be able to accurately predict what species will be where in the river and when a certain species is most likely to be migrating up or down the beaches I fish. Some fish I catch year round, but the diary shows when and where they'll be at their best. Trust me, a diary will eventually improve your fishing to the stage that you'll rarely have a donut day.

Not only that, its great to go through it from time to time and rekindle faded memories. 

All the info I gave you a few months back on where to hit up the flatties in St Georges Basin came from my diary.

31 minutes ago, Isaac Ct said:

Ok, the first of February, 2022, I started a fishing diary. Sounds pretty snappy. Will log everything I can now. My dad has some spare textbooks, so I will write a hard copy then transcript it onto a Excel spreadsheet and will watch the progress unfold.

@Isaac Ct I echo @Green Hornet's recommendations. Start good habits while you are young, and these habits will help you later in life outside of fishing as well.

I would extend the recommendations to this: take photos of every fish you catch, with geolocation turned on* (also try to take your photos of fish where you caught them). This will prove invaluable you as your computing skills improve. Also, learn a bit of excel while you update your diary. Learn how to do some charts like I have done - they aren't hard to do.

If you have a computer studies teacher at school, ask them to teach you how to extract the EXIF data to get the latitude, longitude and date/time. Add this to your spreadsheet against the relevant catch records.

If you want to get even more advanced, take the time to learn some programming in Python (the swiss army knife of programming languages). Eventually you'll get to the level where you can learn to interact with APIs to augment your data and do some geospatial analysis as well. This will blow your world wide open with possibilities. (I used R for these, but I think Python is more versatile as a language).

*Just for safety reasons, be careful not to upload geolocated photos to this site or anywhere else on the internet. I upload screenshots of my photos, partly for this reason but also because they are a lot smaller.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Little_Flatty

[Isaac Ct]

1 hour ago, Little_Flatty said:

@Isaac Ct I echo @Green Hornet's recommendations. Start good habits while you are young, and these habits will help you later in life outside of fishing as well.

I would extend the recommendations to this: take photos of every fish you catch, with geolocation turned on* (also try to take your photos of fish where you caught them). This will prove invaluable you as your computing skills improve. Also, learn a bit of excel while you update your diary. Learn how to do some charts like I have done - they aren't hard to do.

If you have a computer studies teacher at school, ask them to teach you how to extract the EXIF data to get the latitude, longitude and date/time. Add this to your spreadsheet against the relevant catch records.

If you want to get even more advanced, take the time to learn some programming in Python (the swiss army knife of programming languages). Eventually you'll get to the level where you can learn to interact with APIs to augment your data and do some geospatial analysis as well. This will blow your world wide open with possibilities. (I used R for these, but I think Python is more versatile as a language).

*Just for safety reasons, be careful not to upload geolocated photos to this site or anywhere else on the internet. I upload screenshots of my photos, partly for this reason but also because they are a lot smalle

I have Geolocation on and the dates so it makes it easier for me as you suggested. Thanks for the safety issue, and it is interesting that you say screenshots are smaller as I am always having problems with my photos being to big.

[Little_Flatty]

2 hours ago, Isaac Ct said:

I have Geolocation on and the dates so it makes it easier for me as you suggested. Thanks for the safety issue, and it is interesting that you say screenshots are smaller as I am always having problems with my photos being to big.

@Isaac Ct I use the windows snipping tool or the equivalent whenever I'm on the mac and copy/paste into the response box. Removes the geolocation information, uploads your photo (saving you the effort of looking for it on your computer/phone) and makes it small, all in one go. It's one thing taking a picture on the water with a fish, it's another taking a picture of your catch at home in the sink. The latter picture with geolocation can definitely be a bit of a worry.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Little_Flatty

[Little_Flatty]

15 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

All the info I gave you a few months back on where to hit up the flatties in St Georges Basin came from my diary.

Just out of curiosity, how do you use your diary to determine where to go and what to do? Let's just say I PM you and I say I'll be on the Basin for three days in March. What's the process you go through?

Specifically I'm interested in the parameters that drive a decision, for instance time of year, tide, moon phase etc. This might actually help me drive what I am doing with this data.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Little_Flatty

[Green Hornet]

5 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

Just out of curiosity, how do you use your diary to determine where to go and what to do? Let's just say I PM you and I say I'll be on the Basin for three days in March. What's the process you go through?

Specifically I'm interested in the parameters that drive a decision, for instance time of year, tide, moon phase etc. This might actually help me drive what I am doing with this data.

After fishing the place for 30 plus years, most of the information is in my head. 

The Basin isn't tidal, so for me its more about time of year, water temperature and moon phase.

Taking flathead moving into winter as an example, I can predict when they'll leave the deeper water and the fishing will improve up on the warmer mud flats and later on when they'll move up into feeder creeks for the cooler months.

Late February, early March the flathead are transitioning from the deep to the mud flats. Though its really more about water temp than time of year and this is where the diary becomes useful.

[Little_Flatty]

Just a little update. I'm back at uni which is keeping me surprisingly busy despite only doing one subject this semester. So I haven't got the chance to do the geospatial analysis or API in the tides data. Fishing daily is now a dream of the past.

Seems like since my first post, I have caught twelve more flathead. Doesn't feel like it. I really like my flathead fishing and I miss them when they aren't around. Noticeably the number of bream has increased a lot, maybe because we're heading into what is peak bream luring season for me (I still need to work on my surface game for next summer).

The average size of bream I have caught appears to be converging on somewhere in the high 20s. I did add a 39cm model since the last post, but if you recall, that was caught on bread.

I'm predicting a lot more bream on my records until spring. Never seem to do so well on the flathead in winter, though I have caught a few.

[Denisfisho]

The percentage of fish you catch which is legal size is so much higher than my own. Mine would probably be 10%. I suspect because I only do lure fishing.

However 90% of flatties I catch are legal size. I suspect again it may be because I only use lures.