Winterfishing data so far

[faker]

So After many weekends fishing in winter so far starting from June and fishing almost each weekend in middle head area. I have recorded the days i do catch fish and started analysing common factors. Please note I have not have the chance to fish the full and time upcoming to full moon. So would love some data for it

1. Waning gibbous/New moon

2. tide is running in if sea water temp is below 20 degrees otherwise temperature doesn't matter and following a traditional run-in and run-out tide bite periods is fine. I am guessing that sea temp going into estuary will play bigger role here due to nature of middle head area

Does anyone have data consistent with this? Working on cracking the winter code

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by faker

[DerekD]

Hi Mate,

To be honest, while I think it is an excellent thought exercise I wouldn't put too much stock in it. There are hundreds of variables on any particular day which might impact where you are catching fish. Moving 5m or casting 20 seconds later or earlier can often be the difference in a bite. You are trying to put human guidelines onto fish. Having said that there are some learnings which are pretty consistent indicators for what is likely to be happening. Over the years I've seen people looking for the days when the ocean temperature reaches 22°C or even better 24°C as we start to see some of the bigger predator species off Sydney. What food is available at particular times of year is also worth watching and @wazatherfisherman did a beautiful article on this. See the second post in this article

There are species I target more often in winter (such as Luderick) but that is because I can catch them more consistently in the colder months than the fish I prefer to target. I picked up several nice luderick on the fly rod in the Mosman area over the weekend without using burley as I knew where they were likely to be and what they would hit.

My advice would be to fish as often as you can and cover ground and learn how to mix it up through each session.

Regards,

Derek

Edited July 24, 2023 by DerekD

[big Neil]

Sorry Faker, I don't put much faith in cracking the Winter code when it comes to fishing. Sure there are well-established facts that we all know about fishing at any given time, Winter in particular. The one fact we can all agree on is that fishing in Winter is less likely to produce big catches of most species.

Fish are fairly simple creatures in that they only need a few things in life. Food, and safety. Analysing what we know about different species, relative to these two considerations is more likely to set us on the path to better catch rates, in my opinion. Sure, the data which you are focussing on is (possibly) relevant, but much less so than the fundamental survival necessities data which most species need to get through each day. ie not starving to death and not being a meal for some other species. Fish HAVE TO EAT. That's where we join the equation. Use your skills and knowledge of the different species to entice them to do just that.

I have just re-read this post and it sounds rather blunt. I intend no offense, I am merely passing on my opinion which I have formed from a lifetime of fishing. 

Good luck with your future fishing endeavours Faker.

bn 

[faker]

3 hours ago, big Neil said:

Sorry Faker, I don't put much faith in cracking the Winter code when it comes to fishing. Sure there are well-established facts that we all know about fishing at any given time, Winter in particular. The one fact we can all agree on is that fishing in Winter is less likely to produce big catches of most species.

Fish are fairly simple creatures in that they only need a few things in life. Food, and safety. Analysing what we know about different species, relative to these two considerations is more likely to set us on the path to better catch rates, in my opinion. Sure, the data which you are focussing on is (possibly) relevant, but much less so than the fundamental survival necessities data which most species need to get through each day. ie not starving to death and not being a meal for some other species. Fish HAVE TO EAT. That's where we join the equation. Use your skills and knowledge of the different species to entice them to do just that.

I have just re-read this post and it sounds rather blunt. I intend no offense, I am merely passing on my opinion which I have formed from a lifetime of fishing. 

Good luck with your future fishing endeavours Faker.

bn 

well obviously fish needs to eat but they will change their patterns of when and how. for instance fish do not produce their own heat so i am guessing their feeding times occur at warmest water temperature where metabolic rates are up. they either abandon the yabbie and crab locations or change their diet which affects where to find them. something i am working on as well. I will probably need to figure out when which food items are most prolific in which season and where to find them

it would be unreasonable of me to look for summer catch rates but I am looking for catching something rather than doughnuts. some fish are rather residential vs fish that run all over the place

Edited July 25, 2023 by faker

[Mike Sydney]

@faker have a listen to this episode which covers finding fish in winter.

https://doclures.com/winter-estuary-fishing-greg-vinall/

You’re right that warmth is important and this episode talks about heat a lot, specifically ambient heat from structure warming throughout the day. E.g. sand warming in the sun before tide cover still holds warmth and can locally increase water temperature enough to bring fish nearby. 
My regular spots - usually knee deep - are not producing in winter and so I’m fishing deeper near bridges and targeting other species (estuary perch , jewfish) with much better success from just changing locations. While I’ve had some big ‘resident’ bream in summer locations bites have been hard going, so try fishing deeper structure than normal, use slower retrieves and longer pauses.

[Rebel]

The word is Experiment. That includes different fishing set ups.

Also move around to different places.

No day is the same.

Cheers.

[faker]

1 hour ago, Mike Sydney said:

@faker have a listen to this episode which covers finding fish in winter.

https://doclures.com/winter-estuary-fishing-greg-vinall/

You’re right that warmth is important and this episode talks about heat a lot, specifically ambient heat from structure warming throughout the day. E.g. sand warming in the sun before tide cover still holds warmth and can locally increase water temperature enough to bring fish nearby. 
My regular spots - usually knee deep - are not producing in winter and so I’m fishing deeper near bridges and targeting other species (estuary perch , jewfish) with much better success from just changing locations. While I’ve had some big ‘resident’ bream in summer locations bites have been hard going, so try fishing deeper structure than normal, use slower retrieves and longer pauses.

yea reason i was fishing clifton gardens on monday due to the massive drop off. I am thinking of chucking soft vibes into Clontarf drop-off as it goes almost 10 metres. since i am land based there are only several places that fit the deep water requirement. current is not much of an issue with flathead, they just hide under sand while current rides over them. its on my hit list with blades and vibes

[Little_Flatty]

Good effort for a start. From what I've seen of my own experiences, here's a few pointers that will help.

Firstly, don't just record when you catch a fish, record when you donut as well. The date/time you were fishing is most important, as you can work out a lot of information retrospectively (tides, weather etc) from that. Programming skills and experience with APIs can help on this front.

Also, record all undersized fish, undesirable species etc. Sometimes the most innocuous observation can be very important, hence recording the undesirables. For instance, a lack of toads in the Parra is a surefire indication that things are dead!

But all that said, my experience echos @Mike Sydney's, which isn't surprising as our normal fishing styles and target species are fairly similar. As Derek says, vary your target species with the seasons.

Finally, we don't need no fishing diary to answer when the best time to go fishing is. It is whenever you can get onto the water! You just never know! Take this from someone who has pulled a Barramundi out of the Parramatta River!

[faker]

30 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

Good effort for a start. From what I've seen of my own experiences, here's a few pointers that will help.

Firstly, don't just record when you catch a fish, record when you donut as well. The date/time you were fishing is most important, as you can work out a lot of information retrospectively (tides, weather etc) from that. Programming skills and experience with APIs can help on this front.

Also, record all undersized fish, undesirable species etc. Sometimes the most innocuous observation can be very important, hence recording the undesirables. For instance, a lack of toads in the Parra is a surefire indication that things are dead!

But all that said, my experience echos @Mike Sydney's, which isn't surprising as our normal fishing styles and target species are fairly similar. As Derek says, vary your target species with the seasons.

Finally, we don't need no fishing diary to answer when the best time to go fishing is. It is whenever you can get onto the water! You just never know! Take this from someone who has pulled a Barramundi out of the Parramatta River!

yea but you can choose where you fish when you have time. I do record donuts

[JustJames]

The first suggestion I would make is to remove some of the columns from your spreadsheet.

 

Air pressure.  For fish, it has to be irrelevant.  The first 10m of water column weighs the same as the all of the air above it.  A fish moving one metre up or down in the water column experiences more pressure change than the wildest atmospheric pressure change.  Air pressure may be an indicator for something else, such as clear skies which may make a difference, but air pressure itself is not going to affect fish.

 

Similarly, fish don't feel air temperature or humidity, so that's another three variables to remove.  

 

Removing extraneous variables will make it easier to concentrate on relevant variables.

 

Humans are great at spotting patterns, even when they aren't really there.  We are programmed to see cause and effect where none exist.  Back when we were trying to survive on the African savannah, spotting the patterns that helped our ancestors score a meal while avoiding becoming one was a good way to pass genes on to the next generation.  So we notice things that surround successful (and unsuccessful) fishing days and ascribe results to variables that aren't really relevant.  That's why I have a lucky fishing shirt.

 

That said, I intend building a similar spreadsheet for my trolling (ocean, not internet) in the summer months, so please don't interpret any of the above as peeing on your cornflakes.

 

[big Neil]

7 hours ago, faker said:

well obviously fish needs to eat but they will change their patterns of when and how. for instance fish do not produce their own heat so i am guessing their feeding times occur at warmest water temperature where metabolic rates are up. they either abandon the yabbie and crab locations or change their diet which affects where to find them. something i am working on as well. I will probably need to figure out when which food items are most prolific in which season and where to find them

it would be unreasonable of me to look for summer catch rates but I am looking for catching something rather than doughnuts. some fish are rather residential vs fish that run all over the place

When I stated that fish need to eat, my reference was to the fact that they, like us, have varied diets. Fishing is a complex sport where we humans are challenged to outsmart various types of fish species. My main point, probably not emphasised, was that understanding the basic instincts of fish behaviour may be more helpful than examining the more unusual circumstances that affect our catching them. That is only an opinion and may not be significant to yours. There are hundreds of parameters to consider.

Cheers, bn

[faker]

On 7/25/2023 at 6:09 PM, big Neil said:

When I stated that fish need to eat, my reference was to the fact that they, like us, have varied diets. Fishing is a complex sport where we humans are challenged to outsmart various types of fish species. My main point, probably not emphasised, was that understanding the basic instincts of fish behaviour may be more helpful than examining the more unusual circumstances that affect our catching them. That is only an opinion and may not be significant to yours. There are hundreds of parameters to consider.

Cheers, bn

Would you happen to know what are common prey species in harbour at moment. I only notice crabs so far

[Bennyg78]

7 minutes ago, faker said:

Would you happen to know what are common prey species in harbour at moment. I only notice crabs so far

 

Heaps of prey species about. There are lots of bait fish moving through the system, you won't see them push to the surface as they are seeking the stable temps( similar to the predators). For instance your good bream are going to be sitting deep feeding on whatever comes through, as they want a stable temp and they also have a better chance to feed on whatever comes through.

Work that drop off all along Clontarf from the baths along the shoreline, I caught squid there last weekend on a small flutter jig( Ill probably take my daughter there for squid fishing this sunday). 

Fishing in winter is definitely tougher, but wait a few months and you'll be killing it. Thats when my top water addiction kicks in.

[faker]

58 minutes ago, Bennyg78 said:

 

Heaps of prey species about. There are lots of bait fish moving through the system, you won't see them push to the surface as they are seeking the stable temps( similar to the predators). For instance your good bream are going to be sitting deep feeding on whatever comes through, as they want a stable temp and they also have a better chance to feed on whatever comes through.

Work that drop off all along Clontarf from the baths along the shoreline, I caught squid there last weekend on a small flutter jig( Ill probably take my daughter there for squid fishing this sunday). 

Fishing in winter is definitely tougher, but wait a few months and you'll be killing it. Thats when my top water addiction kicks in.

Clontarf has been on my hitlist for a whole with soft vibe and jigs but I loitered at pearl bay drop off too long that day.

I see alot of yabby holes in pearl Bay but never got fish on lures there. Have seen trevs and bream though. I tried blades, grubs and paddles, only thing not done is creature baits like prawns

Edited July 26, 2023 by faker

[big Neil]

9 hours ago, faker said:

Would you happen to know what are common prey species in harbour at moment. I only notice crabs so far

Fish will feed on crabs and other crustaceans, cephalopods, worms, and smaller fish.

Can I suggest that you PM Wazathefisherman. His in-depth knowledge of the Sydney Basin fishing is second to none, and he is very helpful. I'm sure that he would be able to answer location-specific questions for you and head you in the right direction toward improved catches.

Wintertime is often a fairly frustrating time to fish our usual haunts, but the fish survive.

Have a look at Shroom videos on YouTube, he is an excellent angler who fishes the area for all types of species, predominantly with soft plastics. He exudes confidence as does Golden Hour Fishing.

Good luck with your quest to improve your catch rates. Persistence pays and I'm sure you will achieve your goals. We have all travelled the path that you are taking.

bn