Rusty bolts

[Bait_drifta]

Hey guys,  

so i’m in the process of setting up the trailer to fit my boat properly and redoing  the rollers. I  can’t get the bolts out that hold the brackets for the keel rollers. Just wondering if any got any tips on cracking these bloody things out. ( I new bolts and nuts to put in.) 

cheers 

[noelm]

They look like the type that has the nut loose, not welded? If so, just cut them off, I find one of those renovator tools (cheap one from Bunnings/Supercheap) and a metal cutting blade  works, it takes time though if you try too much pressure, the bolt will snap above the nut, or worse still spin around in the bracket and wreck it all. Mind you, looking at that rust, cutting the whole thing off might be best long term.

[Fab1]

Depends what tools and solvents etc you have.

A syringe filled with hydrochloric acid squirted on the threads of the bolt will eat through the rust in seconds allowing removal.( You do need to be careful).

A blow torch (cheap to buy and handy to have ) to heat up the bolt and then touch the threads with a candle will cause wax to seep into the threads through capillary action allowing removal too.

Cutting the bolt head off leaves you with half a bolt and nut still attached inside the rhs that you need to lever and beat out.(Time consuming but does work)

You could try a mix of acetone and transmission fluid as a solvent to loosen the rust(Sometimes works, sometimes doesn’t and I doubt you’d have any on hand like some of the other things I’ve mentioned.

Giving the bolt head a few hard hits with a lump hammer after using penetrants like we 40, acetone mix etc then trying to tighten bolt a smidge first , backing off a smidge backwards and forwards alternating can work.(Rattle Gun is best for this changing from back and forth as the impacts from the hammer action helps a lot.(Again you have to be careful).

These are some of the ways I’ve taken rusty bolts, nuts, screws etc off over the years.

Theres a million other ways I know like blasting them off with a oxy/acetylene but that is a bit extreme in this case me thinks.

The areas in red is where you want the acid, wax, penetrants.

  Good luck.

[noelm]

Trouble is, I think that bolt has gone too far for simple treatment, I have cut them off flush and bashed  the bolt and nut out, down beside the bracket post. But, I wouldn’t be too thrilled at too much hammering looking at that cross member.

[Fab1]

2 minutes ago, noelm said:

Trouble is, I think that bolt has gone too far for simple treatment, I have cut them off flush and bashed  the bolt and nut out, down beside the bracket post. But, I wouldn’t be too thrilled at too much hammering looking at that cross member.

Agreed.I’d be using the heat and wax treatment followed by the acid.I’d replace that piece of rhs (it’s way past it’s prime) by welding in a new one and bracing that cross member too while I was at it.l

  He asked how to remove the bolt/nut I supplied some options.

[noelm]

It’s kind of interesting how bad it is in that one spot, even the roller bracket post is rusted, all that area is just rusted to bits.

[Bryant fish]

Hey fab i like the acid and candle wax ones don’t think I’ve heard or them but will probably forget when i need it

[Fab1]

6 minutes ago, Bryant fish said:

Hey fab i like the acid and candle wax ones don’t think I’ve heard or them but will probably forget when i need it

They both work great mate.The acid will destroy what your putting it on and the heat and candle wax won’t.Keep them in mind for next time and don’t get acid on you or anything else you don’t want eaten away.Ppe and use plenty of water to neutralise/wash acid away from part/area you’ve applied it to when it’s done it’s job.

[slowjigger]

22 minutes ago, Bryant fish said:

Hey fab i like the acid and candle wax ones don’t think I’ve heard or them but will probably forget when i need it

Sounds a bit complicated and potentially hazardous. WD40 make a penetrating spray. You can also alternate with heating it up with a blow torch. I have had a lot of success with this combination. 

[Fab1]

43 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

Sounds a bit complicated and potentially hazardous. WD40 make a penetrating spray. You can also alternate with heating it up with a blow torch. I have had a lot of success with this combination. 

Complicated? I’ll do a write up on how to suck acid into a syringe and press the plunger to squirt it on the threads for you.😂😂 potentially hazardous yes.

  

[slowjigger]

8 minutes ago, Fab1 said:

Complicated? I’ll do a write up on how to suck acid into a syringe and press the plunger to squirt it on the threads for you.😂😂 potentially hazardous yes.

  

You left out the candle wax step. And given multiple applications might be needed - yes this could get tiresome compared to just squirting the nozzle on a spray can. 

[Fab1]

5 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

You left out the candle wax step. And given multiple applications might be needed - yes this could get tiresome compared to just squirting the nozzle on a spray can. 

I’ll pack the whole kit in pink handbag for whoever needs it with moisturising cream for the hands and a voucher for a masseuse incase they get worn out doing what I said.

[slowjigger]

19 minutes ago, Fab1 said:

Complicated? I’ll do a write up on how to suck acid into a syringe and press the plunger to squirt it on the threads for you.😂😂 potentially hazardous yes.

  

Also HCL just doesn't simply wash off and it attacks the metal and can make it more vulnerable to corrosion:

[Fab1]

27 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

Also HCL just doesn't simply wash off and it attacks the metal and can make it more vulnerable to corrosion:

You’re applying it to a nut and bolt you are going to discard and replace so it doesn’t matter what you use to remove the nut/bolt.

[slowjigger]

3 minutes ago, Fab1 said:

You’re applying it to a nut and bolt you are going to discard and replace so it doesn’t matter what you use to remove the nut/bolt.

General advice - you even mentioned yourself to use plenty of water to wash away and 'neutralise' the acid. Some will get on the holder as well (it looks a bit far gone though). 

[Fab1]

3 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

General advice - you even mentioned yourself to use plenty of water to wash away and 'neutralise' the acid. Some will get on the holder as well (it looks a bit far gone though). 

If you read further down I mention to Noel I’d replace the holder(Small piece of rhs) by welding in another one, etc. Yes that part of the trailer is gonsky.

 There’s a million ways to skin a cat if you look outside the box.

 

[Bait_drifta]

Thanks for all your suggestions guys! 
I know the cross member is not in the best shape.  I have some what treated the area to get me through a couple more seasons hopefully. 
 

I have sprayed them with wd40 and let it soak In . Tried to undo it with sockets but the nut  keeps spinning they are to far gone as Noel suggested.
 

I have an Idea of drilling a hole ( pilot hole first)  through  the nut then again at  roughy the same size.  Then grabbing  a cold chisel to spilt the nut in half. After that hopefully jimmying  the bolt out with a screw drive. I could also cut the bolt head flush try bashing it out like Noel said but not keen on whacking it to hard in fear cause more damage. It’s not a user friendly design I think ( the bolt and nut combo). 
 
I don’t have blow touch might have to get one , to help. 

 

[Fab1]

17 minutes ago, Bait_drifta said:

Thanks for all your suggestions guys! 
I know the cross member is not in the best shape.  I have some what treated the area to get me through a couple more seasons hopefully. 
 

I have sprayed them with wd40 and let it soak In . Tried to undo it with sockets but the nut  keeps spinning they are to far gone as Noel suggested.
 

I have an Idea of drilling a hole ( pilot hole first)  through  the nut then again at  roughy the same size.  Then grabbing  a cold chisel to spilt the nut in half. After that hopefully jimmying  the bolt out with a screw drive. I could also cut the bolt head flush try bashing it out like Noel said but not keen on whacking it to hard in fear cause more damage. It’s not a user friendly design I think ( the bolt and nut combo). 
 
I don’t have blow touch might have to get one , to help. 

 

You don’t have a stick welder by any chance? You can burn it out if you do.I’ve stoped them from spinning with a small chisel wedges down the side of the nut before and by sitting a nut on top of the nut and one below it then squashed the lot with a g clamp.

 I doubt that piece of rusty rhs is strong enough for the g clamp to rest against to stop it spinning.. You can cut it flush like Noel said, centre punch it and drill them out too with good/sharp bits using cutting fluid or similar to keep the bit cool.

  It takes a while but you’ll win in the end.

[Bryant fish]

I’ve used the acid plenty of times for cleaning bricks and things its not too bad if you’re careful with it certainly nothing to be scared about 

[noelm]

Yeah, mild acid is OK, unless you get it on your clothes, in your eye or on soft bare skin……not too sure how much rust it will “eat away” but it can’t hurt, I’m still concerned about the integrity of the cross member, why fool around trying to do a quick patch when very shortly it could/will be another crossmember?

[Fab1]

10 hours ago, noelm said:

Yeah, mild acid is OK, unless you get it on your clothes, in your eye or on soft bare skin……not too sure how much rust it will “eat away” but it can’t hurt, I’m still concerned about the integrity of the cross member, why fool around trying to do a quick patch when very shortly it could/will be another crossmember?

You need to use the acid straight out the bottle otherwise you may as well sling that bag I mentioned over the old shoulder and go participate in bingo and take macrame lessons.😂😂 I know what you’re saying about watered down acid it’s 💩.

[slowjigger]

42 minutes ago, Fab1 said:

You need to use the acid straight out the bottle otherwise you may as well sling that bag I mentioned over the old shoulder and go participate in bingo and take macrame lessons.😂😂 I know what you’re saying about watered down acid it’s 💩.

That's assuming your bottle is concentrated HCL This will be 37-38% as it can't be dissolved in water much higher than that. You need some serious PPE such as acid resistant gloves, safety glasses and or face shield, and avoid breathing the fumes. 

[Hoods]

A great discussion Gentlemen, Can anyone explain why that particular location has suffered so much rust compared to surrounding areas and how the rust can be prevented please??

Thanks, Hoods

[Bait_drifta]

5 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

That's assuming your bottle is concentrated HCL This will be 37-38% as it can't be dissolved in water much higher than that. You need some serious PPE such as acid resistant gloves, safety glasses and or face shield, and avoid breathing the fumes. 

Steering clear from the acid, I’ll just stick with WD40! 

[slowjigger]

6 minutes ago, Bait_drifta said:

Steering clear from the acid, I’ll just stick with WD40! 

They make a penetrating spray. It is sure to come in handy for other jobs eg stuck fishing reel screws.