the demise of OMC

[dunc333]

a great story today from danny casey with pictures about the omc story interesting stuff ,i dont know how to link it.its on marine buiness news cheers dunc333 

[noelm]

It’s a long and twisted saga, how the once great manufacturer went down, some through bad management and some through blind faith (and stupidity) they were “saved” by BRP but they also couldn’t see the change and persisted with all their fragile eggs in one flimsy basket.

[JustJames]

1 hour ago, dunc333 said:

a great story today from danny casey with pictures about the omc story interesting stuff ,i dont know how to link it.its on marine buiness news cheers dunc333 

 

Interesting reading, and here is the link:

https://www.marinebusinessnews.com.au/2023/12/the-life-and-death-of-a-legend-top-dog-to-underdog/

[BaitDropper]

What a great read JustJames,  there was a lot of history in that article, which bought us to today..

[dunc333]

thanks for the link James

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by dunc333

[noelm]

That article really only just brushed over the real “issues” that killed OMC and eventually BRP and  the Evinrude name entirely. The smart thing to do (and was advised by engineers and the marketing team) was to offer the Johnson as a 4 stroke (they (BRP) had the motors already) and continue the Evinrude name as a 2 stroke, thus having a leg either side of the fence. However, the bean counters were too proud, stupid and stubborn to see the light, and persisted with a 2 stroke that was living right on the edge of disaster to comply with emission standards. Add to that proprietary injectors, unique to only them (voice coil operated) and not able to be swapped even between cylinders, spark plugs that needed to be orientated in a certain position, an EMM that contained the battery charging system, producing lots of heat, required a water cooling system to operate, and a silly 55V electrical system, and the motors were doomed to failure right from the start, but, the “back room” boffins wouldn’t budge, until their market share was so small, they just pulled the pin and said “close the doors” BRP remains a huge company, making jet skis, snow equipment, quad bikes and jet planes, and still retain the Evinrude/Johnson name, but have no plans to introduce an outboard again.

Edited December 22, 2023 by noelm

[noelm]

Just to add, the majors players in the outboard market faced the same situation, but they made the right choice, Yamaha scrapped their EFI 2 stroke offering (HPDI) long before it became obsolete, Mercury ditched the Optimax, due to continued reliability issues, costs and new emission standards, Tohatsu persisted for a while longer before they too saw the light and partnered with Honda to rebadge 4 strokes until they could ramp up their 4 stroke manufacturing. Tohatsu are now making most of their 4 stroke line, with only the big HP motors still Hondas right now, Suzuki were the first to pioneer oil injection (from their motor bike days) but they too saw the market change and started adapting Suzuki car engines to their outboard legs, but not without teething problems, indeed they made 4 strokes for Johnson at one time, but that partnership died with the e-tec! If BRP had of played their cards right, the name might have seen them still a major player.

[BaitDropper]

The reason I found this such an interesting article is because it can sort of be compared, though not the specific technicalities, to the British motor cycle industry of the 70's.

The author briefly mentioned one facet of this, or rather one player, BSA.

While different, it was however the same lack of market forward thinking, heavy union involvement and subsequent lack of development, that caused the collapse of the British iconic motorcycling manufacturing. The Japanese, who never really had an Iconic status with the motorbikes they were producing in this Era, took grasp of new technology, with regard to the manufacturing process, which eventually surpassed then dominated the industry and was a major contributor to the likes of Norton, BSA and triumph being left in the wilderness and basically closing there doors. There were many other factors involved in this, as per the above outboard topic, but if you don't move with the times, up your R&R and have something price competitive in the market place, it doesn't matter how Iconic your product was/is, it won't last.

There are prototypes of Triumph motorcycles, in collectors hands, that were complete disasters, never to be manufactured commercially, valuable now because of there significance and rarity, but clearly showing Triumphs lack of initiative and market forward thinking, as their competition strode ahead on completely different successful paths.

History is a great thing, Luv reading about this sort of stuff.

[dunc333]

i really couldnt believe they made a outboard for duck shooters which the prop could cut through weed, and it folded up into a carry case for easy transport .very forward thinking that one cheers dunc333

[noelm]

Lots of products failed because of poor planning, the Japanese killed everything off by making things better and cheaper. Look at Honda, they just have a good product and just keep making them, they are very “Japanese” in their product, no dancing girls or trumpets trying to tell the world how fabulous they are, it’s just a quality product that works. Yamaha are a lot more global and in some ways, more modern, with advertising and constant change, but, they manufacture a lot of things, from outboards, motor bikes, hi fi equipment, pianos and a thousand other things.

[noelm]

The British were in a lot of ways very clever, they “invented” lots of things (the east/west engine in cars) but failed miserably in making anything good, their cars were heavy and low powered, just look at old Rovers and Austens, and as mentioned Triumph, the E type Jag was light years ahead of its time in both styling and engineering, but to own one required a damn good tool kit!

[XD351]

The British also invented the first anti rust system - it is called oil leaks 🤣🤣🤣

[BaitDropper]

Modernization and using new Tech was Britain's downfall, for example, the triumph engine was designed by Edward turner in 1938 and still being used till Triumphs demise. The Japanese were light years ahead in technology, while the workers at Meridan ( Triumph factory) were still using 30-40 and 50 year old machinery, Japan had computer type generated machinery, with much more accuracy and speed, made them a far superior made engine. I saw a video a while back, it was of a retiring Meridan worker in the late 60's early 70's. He was being presented with an award for his service, as they picked up his lathe that was the machine he had worked on, for the past 25 years, which was packed up underneath by and made level with wooden packing cases !!  As these machinist retired, there machines were also removed from service,, simply archaic.. They were still making engines, by hand, with terrible tolerances, while the Japanese were near fully automated,,, mind boggling really.. But for me, this is what appeals to me about owning and rebuilding them.. Having re built many of them, seeing first hand where cost cutting parts were installed, just to survive and remain competitive, was very short sighted.

It would be interesting, to see what other companies, giants in there early days, went by the way side like OMC did,, I bet there would be a few examples of this.

Agree Noel, The British were extremely clever when you look at history, but I guess they never had that foresight about the future direction or development.

 

[noelm]

I guess a close to home example would be Holden and Ford, both huge manufacturers, but just died a slow death, same for Aussie made appliances, all gone. Not too sure how Tohatsu is going to go, they have been building engines for other brands for decades, but only really “dabbled” with their own name in the market place. Suzuki seem to be making inroads in sales, but as it stands, the market is dominated by Mercury and Yamaha, Honda seem to be just “interested” in market share, certainly not trying to grab a lot more, so the “scraps” belong to Honda, Suzuki and Tohatsu, with a microscopic number of Chinese copies clinging to last place, most of them die an early death, Chrysler had a foot in the door for a while, but poor quality and reliability saw them fizzle out long ago, along with their Auto industry.

[XD351]

My mates old man had a Tehri outboard - I think made in Norway or Finland , 50 hp was as big and as heavy as a 70 evinrude- absolute dog of a motor. 
one testament to Japanese adaptability is their car manufacturing industry, most of these grew from either bicycle manufacturing or sewing machines and by the end of WW2 manufacturing of anything in Japan had been obliterated so to get where they are today from there is pretty amazing!
I thought evinrude were going to be making some weird outboard- I think it was called a ghost ? 

[noelm]

8 hours ago, XD351 said:

My mates old man had a Tehri outboard - I think made in Norway or Finland , 50 hp was as big and as heavy as a 70 evinrude- absolute dog of a motor. 
one testament to Japanese adaptability is their car manufacturing industry, most of these grew from either bicycle manufacturing or sewing machines and by the end of WW2 manufacturing of anything in Japan had been obliterated so to get where they are today from there is pretty amazing!
I thought evinrude were going to be making some weird outboard- I think it was called a ghost ? 

The Ghost “secret project” is just a kind of motor mounted under a platform outside the boat, in a capsule sort of thing, it’s kind of in use on pontoon type boats, but so far hasn’t set the boating world on fire, no idea if it will ever really take off, can’t see it ever being a big hit in “mainstream” boating.

[noelm]

I personally think, if BRP actually had a crack at outboards again, using one of their 4 stroke production motors (they manufacture Rotax) or at a minimum rebadge someone else’s to test the market, use the Johnson name (Evinrude has a sad name at the moment) they might still salvage some market share out of the ashes. They already have the machinery and tooling to manufacture the lower units and associated add ons, and being as big as they are, they might just be able to add another name to the market…….maybe?

edit……please, I am not against two strokes, don’t post telling us you have an old motor for 30 years and it’s still going, and it’s a simple motor, simplicity died years ago, even on two strokes……it’s just not relevant, the world has spoken on this already.

Edited December 22, 2023 by noelm

[JustJames]

17 hours ago, noelm said:

The British were in a lot of ways very clever, they “invented” lots of things (the east/west engine in cars) but failed miserably in making anything good, their cars were heavy and low powered, just look at old Rovers and Austens, and as mentioned Triumph, the E type Jag was light years ahead of its time in both styling and engineering, but to own one required a damn good tool kit!

The British motor (car) industry is something of a special case, car nerds pull up a chair now...

 

I have a sort of personal interest here, having owned MG's from the 40's, 60's, 70's and early 2000's, so what follows will be MG-heavy, but I strongly suspect you would find similar stories under other marques..  Here goes.  The biggest problem for the British motor industry was that they won the war.  That left them strapped for cash, which meant they had to make what they could and "export or die".  After WWII MG exported TC sports cars (many of them to the US but also to Australia and other colonies).  They were pretty, tough and nimble, and good enough for Carol Shelby - he of AC Cobra fame - to have a great deal of racing success wih one.  Pic below...

But this was really a pre-War design, with some small mods to bring it kinda up to date.  And export success was limited because it was only ever manufactured in right hand drive.

 

Subsequent and similar MG sports cars coninued until the mid 50's, by which time they were hopelessly out of date.  

 

By contrast, Germany had been bombed flat, so had to start from virtually nothing.  That was a hindrance at first, but it did mean that they were able to start with a clean slate, and even had assistance from the Allies in getting manufacturing re-established.

 

Pretty much every generation of British car since the war seemed to be one step behind what the rest of the word was doing, hindered by semi-nationalisation and aggressive unionisation into the 70's.

 

I don't think it's fair to call British cars heavy and under powered.  But there was a pervasive design philiosophy that steered British engine design.  Cars were taxed on cylinder bore size, with bigger bore size attracting higher taxes.  Thet led British automotive designers to design long stroke engines, which are great for low speed torque, but lousy for hig hengine speed horse power, becaase typically high horse power engines are high RPM engines, and to make a high RPM engine, you need an engine with similar bore and stroke sizes, if not an "over square" engine, which has a bore that is wider than the length of the stroke. 

[dunc333]

the review of the ghost is pretty bad not sure again how to link it but type in team marine ghost review and have a laugh they have nicknamed it the underboard a etec turned side ways and put in a submergered bucket

[noelm]

I had a very long love affair with minis, from way back before “hydrolastic” suspension days. I agree the British had the brains and the tooling, but, they always just fell short of the line (in my opinion) the mini with the east west engine, complete with gearbox, the battery in the boot, four wheel independent suspension and rack and pinion steering were years ahead of any other auto maker in a lot of ways.

[noelm]

6 minutes ago, dunc333 said:

the review of the ghost is pretty bad not sure again how to link it but type in team marine ghost review and have a laugh they have nicknamed it the underboard a etec turned side ways and put in a submergered bucket

Yep, that’s “ghost” alright, can anyone actually see it getting off the ground? I don’t know what the engineers were drinking/smoking when it was designed, and exactly what market they intended to capture, but I won’t be rushing out to buy one.

[dunc333]

no never no dealers will take them on .the ones they have sold in america were through there brp owned dealerships.a dealer has to pay upfront for i think a minimum of 4 boats at a time and the rules brp have set to the dealer are laughable at the least .

.

[dunc333]

nice car just james for the time .my time i had the datsun 1600 which the japanese made with rear independent suspension way ahead of it time in australia

[antonywardle]

This is my old Datsun 1600. Its the same age me, and arguably in better condition. 

[Blackfish]

That’s a smick looking car AW.