wazatherfisherman

Hi Gengar when I was still in high school (45 years ago) a group of us used to fish all around the zoo to Balmoral area, often spinning metals for the whole day. We used to mainly catch Tailor and Bonito and the "prize" Frigate Mackerel. Every so often someone would get a Kingfish, but most of the time these were lost as we all fished 6-10lb mono (mainly 6lb) and even less frequently a Mack Tuna, Salmon were probably the rarest capture (unlike these days) of all. For the most part, we learned that you just couldn't wind too fast (reels were only around 4.5-1 retrieve speed) as so often a fish (or a few fish) would race in and eyeball the lure before either taking it or often veering off. Speed was key! Not saying winding slower won't catch you fish, but going flat out induced heaps more interest when using metals. Best lure for that area was (by far) a Jensen Pirk in white in 7gm size- caught whatever fish were there. Other top producers were Jensen Pirken in chrome, Stingsilda in blue/chrome, ABU Krill in chrome- all 7gm size. Next best were Halco Twisty's in either silver or gold and Arrow's by WK. Halco Sparkler was also good but had a tendency to cause line twist more often. Most of the time the fish in the Harbour were feeding on bait under 5cm long- Whitebait, Anchovy or Tiny Pilchards, so the 7-10gm size lures induced the most strikes. If the prey was slightly larger it was usually Pilchards, Tiny Mackerel and now and again Garfish. Larger lures that worked well were Jensen Tobis, ABU Toby (great Tailor lure) Arrows, Wonder Pilchard and Wonder Wobbler. Not forgetting Twisty's and plain metal slices. Off the ocean front the old "half by quarter" lures and Arrows probably accounted for more fish than any other lures. Lead fish-shaped lures were also OK, but the above mentioned the best. Most of the above lures have been obsolete for ages, but if you google them you'll get an idea of the shapes, colours and profiles. Of today's lures, there are plenty of high quality small bait fish profiles such as Sea Rock that fit the bill.

Also Safefishing.com.au

Hi KC they send me an email every time there are warnings issued or about to be issued- great free service. info@rfansw.com.au It's the Recfish site. Have a look- good info there

Thanks Noelm the Recreational Fishing Alliance of NSW issued an email alert yesterday afternoon warning of "large and powerful swells" and dangerous conditions from the Illawarra to Byron coasts. Unsafe for rock fishing and most recreational boating activities such as bar crossings etc. Always worth reviving this thread as it may well save someone who was thinking of going.

Awesome sized Gar!

That's not a Groper- that's "General Sherman" the Catfish

You'd be surprised where they turn up. Biggest one I ever saw was at Warumbul in SW Arm- it was a giant. There are some big ones up in Cowan in similar terrain. Often wondered what their primary food source is in locations like that. Plenty of huge ones around the lower harbour ledges as well at spots like Dobroyd, Middle Head, Grotto Point, there's a couple of "tame" ones at the Gasworks that the divers can swim with. Koalaboi is right- you wouldn't want to be the one that killed one, just too awesome a creature

After all the publicity lately about that particular location, it really makes you wonder. The emergency services folk must be really frustrated at users seemingly lack of common sense. No amount of signs etc would make a difference it seems. Hope they don't have to rescue anyone else today (or other days)

Hi Yowie I'm also guilty of fishing off high, thin ledges a few times. Only after going out in the boat and looking at the spot from the water did we realise the ledge that 8 of us were on one night was far less than a foot thick

Thanks Blackfish what I didn't say in the story was that the choice of clothing worn by the deceased also lead to his demise. He was weighed down by several pairs of track suit pants and three different bum bags which contributed to pulling him under. Light clothing and shorts are a must if fishing the rocks

G'day mate I fished the gulf plenty of times until going out front with the sounder on and realising what those giant Kings were busting us off on. Also one of the 4 most dangerous spots in terms of lives lost, not sure if it's still the case. Police had to go down as it could have been a crime scene- considering the conditions. Knew it was a bad idea, but they went regardless. Don't think there really is an answer to people getting washed in sadly.

There is a well known Snapper spot at Curracurrang Bay in the Royal National Park that we used to fish when the conditions were right. By "right" it meant going during or immediately after a big southerly that had been blowing for at least three days. The bigger and rougher the swell, the better. Heavy rain also added to the best fishing conditions, albeit not at all comfortable to fish in. However, in these bad conditions for the fisher, catching a couple of Snapper was the reward and worth the long travel from the city There are other spots that produce fish in huge seas, but this one was relatively safe from the sea, due to it being about 150 meters inland from the ocean and was high enough on the cliff and had the added protection of a large bay between the spot and the actual ocean front. Wasn't a day for fishing the rocks otherwise as a huge, thick groundswell was rolling in. From the high spot, you are looking towards the N/E in the direction of North Curracurrang rock platform which is about 7-800 meters away. In the pre-sun up light, we observed two figures on the cliff top in the far distance, they walked along the top of the cliff until almost directly above the fishing spot known as North Curra Point. I remember remarking to my two companions that they'd be turning back pretty quickly after having a look at the sea, as even from our far away vantage point, we could clearly see the largest swells were completely engulfing the fishing area, sometimes sending more than 3 meters of water over the platform. Sure enough, after having a brief look, the two figures retraced their tracks and disappeared from our view. The access to North's platform has two completely different routes- one via a short track down about halfway along the southern side and the other via a steep but quite direct route down a clay and sandstone gully on the northern side, which would have been a really muddy and wet route down. Some time later we were both surprised and horrified to all of a sudden see the same two figures appear out on the end of North's platform, having obviously descended via the track on the gully/north side. We looked at each other in horror because only a few minutes earlier, the entire spot had been totally under water, regardless that it is pretty high out of the sea. We watched for a few minutes as they appeared then disappeared as they ran from swells and were out of our line of vision, then as the sun got a little higher, we were no longer able to see them in the rising morning sun, before again appearing out on the tip of the platform, obviously fishing. More swells, more running and the sun was then hovering right in our line of vision and we could no longer see the end of the platform due to looking straight towards the sun. About twenty minutes later, we heard what we initially thought was a cry coming from back inland towards where Curracurrang Creek flows into the bay, some 200 meters in from where we were. There were a few tents there when we walked in during the night and we thought the tents occupants were probably up and around. Over the next ten or fifteen minutes, we heard the same noise a couple more times, but it was pretty much impossible to tell either what the noise was or exactly where it was coming from, then all of a sudden with a momentary lapse in the noise of the ocean, we heard it again and this time it sounded like "HELP!" I grabbed my mobile phone and made my way back along the cliff edge and back to where the tents were, adjacent to the creek. There were 3 teenage girls and a young guy making their way out to the entrance of the creek on the opposite side and they yelled out to me. On reaching them they asked if it was me calling for help, as they had also heard the cries. I said no, not me, but they had heard clearly the help cry, so we all walked out to the northern side entrance to the creek, staying up high, well away from the ocean. As we got as far to the east as we could go, we heard the cry again and this time, it was close. We all thought the noise was coming from somewhere in the water, but due to the glare off the sea- which was completely white and foamy, we couldn't see anything. I was certain by this stage that it was someone in the water, but then a guy appeared coming towards us and waving his arms. He told us in broken English that his friend was washed off the point and was in the water. We managed to understand that they had been hit by one of those big swells and the younger guy had gone over the edge and down into the water. He said he had thrown the "circle" to him, which turned out to be the Angel Ring installed on North Curracurrang Point. He wasn't clear about whether the guy in the water had got hold of the ring, but I took it that he had, and we made haste back towards the point. A couple of the girls had phones and tried to get an emergency call out, but to no avail. I told them to keep trying and followed the guy back towards where the younger fellow had gone in and decided to try and get up high on the cliff in order to possibly get phone reception. I can't remember what year it was, but it was when mobile phones were just switching from analogue to digital and I had recently bought a Nokia 3310 digital and was able to get an emergency call out- not on 000, it was either 111 or 112- I can't remember which, but definitely not 000. The operator put me through to the water police and the situation explained. They asked where we would be and said the Westpac Helicopter was already doing it's early morning coast flight- which was a daily occurrence along the coast- don't know if this still is the case re helicopter's patrolling each morning. We reached the cliff top above the ledge (probably 60-70 meters above it) and with the sun now behind us started looking for the Angel Ring. A few minutes of looking and we spotted the Angel Ring a long way to the south and well out past the entrance to the bay, it was way too far to be able to tell if there was anyone hanging onto it as it was probably more than 800 meters from the spot he'd thrown it in and only really visible due to it being orange in a sea that was completely white within a couple of hundred meters of the rocks. After spotting the ring, the guy became a little less anxious and we sat on the cliff top while he tried to explain to me what had happened. On arrival, they had had a look off where we were now sitting and the younger guy decided it was OK to go down. After getting there via the north and slightly more protected side, they arrived to find the sea much bigger than they thought. Instead of turning around and going home, they decided to just fish a "little bit" before going and were only there a few minutes when a set of the big swells we'd witnessed from our high spot had come in. The younger guy was washed over by the backwash from the swell and the older guy washed higher up into the base of the cliff, but stayed there after the water receded. He then managed to convey that he wasn't sure if his companion had managed to get hold of the Angel Ring as he hadn't been able to get anywhere near the edge to look, due to repeated sets of waves crashing over the point. I made the regretful remark of "why did you come here today?"- "it's so dangerous"- he replied "come here many times, many times- never like this before, never like this" and just didn't understand. It was "calm, calm, this place- always calm, never like this"- I wished I hadn't asked such a stupid question. He became really distressed again and I had to take him away from the cliff edge because I thought at one point he was going over in distress. Then my phone rang and it was the Westpac Helicopter pilot who was approaching from the north, he asked me to put my left arm in the air and point seawards with the right, which I did so he could ID us. He then said to point with both arms together in the direction we thought the guy in the water was. We could still just see the Angel Ring in the far distance and pointed arms towards it. The pilot added that the police would be arriving by land shortly, before starting to head off in the direction of where we indicated. For about 1 minute both of us on the cliff top were smiling and thinking everything was going to be alright, but the helicopter only flew about 100 meters away before turning and coming back a bit, then a rescuer was being quickly lowered on a cable below the helicopter. The other guy was jubilant, thinking that they had found his mate, but I knew that as he wasn't visible to us, it wasn't going to be good. The swell was that large that the helicopter had to rise up a couple of times while the rescue diver was in the water and when the cable was winched up revealing two people coming up, I tried not to let the other guy know what I was realising. The helicopter then rang me back and the pilot asked me if I was next of kin, my heart sank as I said no- why? He replied they were going to Sutherland hospital and the police would be with us in a couple of minutes. Trying to hide what I'd just learned from the pilot was one of the hardest things I've ever done and I was relieved to see 3 uniformed police approaching from above us on the headland fire trail where they'd parked two vehicles. The older guy still hadn't realised his friend had passed away and as the police approached I motioned best I could that he wasn't yet aware. The senior constable in charge nodded he understood and then we had a brief chat before he declared they would go down with the guy to retrieve their gear. I immediately objected to them going down and tried in every way possible to stop them, arguing they had long pants on and police boots, which were totally unsuitable for hurrying over wet rocks. The senior officer told me my concerns were duly noted, but they would be fine and it was necessary to collect the gear. I couldn't come up with anything to prevent them going and they left me giving my details to the officer who remained up top. I did however insist that he get back in touch with the helicopter, as in my opinion, there were now 4 people at serious risk. They left via the gully on the south side to commence the walk out to the point and I then left to return to where my companions were still fishing. The next night I got a call from the water police saying they were going to come and interview me about what had happened and would be over the next night. The next part of this story was related to me by the water police when they came to my place. Firstly, when the officer arrived at my place he was visibly shaken. He had just returned from returning the deceased fisherman's belongings to his family. In respect of their privacy, I won't relate other than to say it was a tragic scene at the family home, with much distressing sorrow. The officer stayed with me for several hours and many cups of coffee, firstly getting my sequence of events and observations, before telling me what happened after I'd left them at the cliff top. The police needed to establish why anyone would be rock fishing when huge swells were hitting the coast. After descending from the cliff to a level providing access to move around the side of the headland, the two male and one female officer managed with some difficulty to reach the fisherman's gear, which was still where they'd left it. The gear was packed, scene viewed and noted. Before they were able to leave, they had to take refuge for a time, while multiple sets of huge swells again engulfed the platform, blocking off their exit temporarily. When they deemed it safe enough to leave, they did so quickly and got away from the point and back onto the higher ledges to commence the return to the gully accessing the cliff top. Unfortunately, before reaching safety, another series of giant swells swept over the platform and continued on along the ledges they were on. Nowhere to get out of the way or hold onto, the 3 officers and the fisherman were swept off their feet and travelled a short distance along the ledge, before getting caught in the water-flow and washed towards the edge of the long south facing area. The young police woman -who wasn't very tall- nearly went over the edge and apparently only the bravery of the senior officer who managed to reach her before she tumbled over with the water flow saved her from going in. It so easily could have been an even worse tragedy. While talking to the officer at home that night, we talked about possible strategy for preventing incidents from happening, but each time one of us came up with an idea, the other came up with different reason/s why none of our ideas - mine from a fisherman's perspective, his from a rescuers- would really make a great deal of difference, especially in the case of what had just happened. The fishermen, although regular users of the location, just didn't have the grasp of the situation they went into and it then became similar to the rescuers, who although obliged to retrieve belongings, had training and courage, were still overwhelmed by a larger (than they expected) swell. One of my suggestions was to have signage in the Park warning of danger before even getting to the coast, but the water police made the point that who would be responsible if the conditions changed before the signs were updated or someone was injured after it had been deemed OK to go. If there were no signs did that also mean it was "safe" There have been many suggestions over a long period of time in regard to how to approach the problem, such as making it mandatory to carry your own safety gear, lifejackets, be able to swim, join a fishing club, put up signs, do a fishing safety course/certificate, exclude areas where multiple fatalities have occurred. These and many others all have merit in different ways, but it really boils down to the individual where safety is concerned. Although not knowing the other two fishermen, the events of that day have never left me and the only advice I can really offer is to watch the ocean for a full 20 minutes before deciding whether or not to go and if you have to "toss up" going or not then take that as a don't go, there's always next week.

Hi Zoran sorry my bad! You've got me reading and thinking- thanks for alerting us to what's going on, until I read your post I had no idea.

If you go to www.saveourcoast.org there is a pre-written message which has a simple "click" button to send to the relevant politicians- a good place to start while we construct our own messages

Hi Zoran I don't know if you read my post on "Marine Park Concerns" when the proposal was put forward for the marine park lock-outs. I believe something similar by a great number of constituents is the way to initially approach this, because if it goes ahead, well, we as users of the ocean know the threat/disaster it proposes.

Shimano Evair water shoes are great. They last a really long time, made of moulded EVA with an innersole. Great in/out of the water and similar to Crocs but with the innersole. Best of all they are available from sponsor Dinga online. They have them on special at times also. Have had the black ones with blue sole but the grey ones seem softer and more comfortable for some reason. I have crook legs and I live in the Shimano's- even comfy on concrete. Best to cover your feet- even Flatties can be deadly flapping around on the floor.

Stating the obvious but that's terrible for everyone involved, wonder how long the area will remain accessible. Prayers for the families and the injured

Top photo Pete!

That's mad! A Sailfish (it looks like) inside anywhere is rare indeed

Good on you Jim first of many!

Great story, great company, great photo's and some nice fish to tick off the bucket list! Nice pottery also Neil, looks like you guys had a terrific time

Just wanted to add (because I forgot until looking) I bought 3 x 3 piece coarse rods from the UK last year. All make great Blackfish rods, one is a Sportex Mamba- brown glass, singular long cork butt with sliding rings reel seat. Can't reach the other 2 at the moment but all are 12 ft and 3 piece glass joints. Christened the Sportex a couple of months ago and similar action to a 3902. My Sportex were all orange.

Hi Sardine have built 2 piece Sportex 3902's a couple of times also Butterworth 3108's and one BF5144L (sanded finish) this was years ago of course, chromed brass ferrules. Had a light green 5144L for years until it was stolen. Has a giant red and green diamond bound on it if anyone sees it-very distinct. Still have 2 x Butterworth GP3145'S, one with grips and regular winch which also has a bent tip (left the blank bent around purposely after rod was finished) the other has bind-on winch and no grips. Had a couple of 3902's one traded, one stolen with a heap of gear from garage at Carramar. Also have a black un-sanded 3145 cut down to 10ft with grips and regular winch, an old solid glass 3 piece Jarvis Walker "Swansea"- off the rack Blackie rod and one each of 10 and 11 ft Shakespeare limited edition black Blackfish Special which were extremely cheap in the 70's but still going strong after I rebuilt them about 2 years ago. Had also a Ugly Stik 2 piece Blackfish rod (not many made) had glass-to-glass ferrule (one of the first rods made like this here) Butterworth were original makers of GP3145. Jarvis Walker brought out a 2 piece in the "Gold Medal Range" called the Port Hacking- 10 ft 2 piece, glass-to-glass ferrule-you were pushing it to break 4lb mono on it- super noodle. Mick Simmonds also had a 2 piece solid glass noodle that even bent under the cheap winch and low grade cork grips, they were sold in 1976 for $4 built. Max Mulligan used to build Grizzly's while they were available, he also made rock floats and was a club member of the Amateur Fishermen's Association of NSW (AFA was known as-still an active club meeting at Concord weekly). Hank Newman built about 3 different Blackfish rods 1 and 2 piece and he used one himself to catch most of his record fish on 3lb line in the early days of ANSA. I only have the above rods left in collection, but have nice collection of reels from Steelite right up tp G+Y "Purist 2". Also have many custom spool Blackfish reels in Cedar, White Onion-wood, Beefwood etc and decent float collection. Great to see others still collect these classic items.

Henry- firstly I'm glad you and your companions ended up OK from your incident. There are a couple of things to add. Firstly, I'm not sure if the others close to you were your mates, I take it from reading your post you had companions, but whoever they were, some had long pants/track suit pants on. NEVER wear that sort of clothing on the rocks- shorts only, regardless of the time of year. ALL long pants will be grabbed by any water that comes over any platform and contribute to the water flow in knocking you over. Then if you go in, have you ever tried swimming with long trousers on? They will weigh you down dreadfully, resulting in disaster. In response to your suggestions- 1) Better Signage- regardless of what is on any sign, if an area is regularly fished by you or others and you arrive and read said signage, after arriving keen to go fishing, how much regard are people going to take of the warning/s? Most likely the spot will be fished (as is the fisher's intention in the first place) albeit "possibly" taking into consideration whatever the warning is. There was a warning last week on NSW Recfisher to be wary of "large and powerful swells" Honestly, would you choose not to fish a popular location that others were fishing because a sign warned of possible danger? You just can't rely on signage to determine the "safety/unsafe" access to ANY coastal rocks. The sea is in a continual state of change and the only "constant" being that nothing remains the same. 2) Better Education/ Messaging- Observation of the location by those intending to use it is the best indicator of conditions that as said above, are in constant change. The general rule of watching the location for 15-20 minutes before making the decision to go there must be a better indicator than anything else. As Derek said above, especially when new/newish to a location, it's of great benefit to just go for an extended "look". Gives you a bit of an idea how the place works. No amount of videos will teach you what is happening on different days/seas. ALL ledges are different. When/if water comes over a ledge, look to see where this water can go, as it will flow back off somewhere on the location. Where possible do not fish single level spots with a "wall/step" directly behind you as the water often "doubles up" before pushing back off the area with an often increased velocity, due to it having nowhere else to go other than straight back into the ocean. There was a large amount of swimmers washed off the Figure Eight Pools platform at Burning Palms from this exact occurrence -there were no signs there and they weren't fishing, but the water that covered the platform needed to flow off and took a lot of people out with it. 3) Provide Danger Grading- It's not reasonable to provide a grading system for different locations because on different days/seas/swell direction etc are completely different. It might be "safe" in the morning then a killer in the space of a few hours/tide difference/wind change etc. Where it is safe one day might be deadly the next. Directly after the cessation of Westerly winds is a prime example. The "westerly-rollback" effect usually results in large, thick swells that head towards land and appear within a couple of hours of the wind stopping. Not always, but often and these are the swells that are really thick and push right over the platforms. Some days these come as "sets" of a series of waves, often with long periods of calm between them. ANYWHERE that there are lifebuoys/Angel Rings should be considered dangerous- that's why they have been installed, generally because either lives have been lost or multiple incidents have occurred. Then there is the question of "Liability" from those who erect any hazard signs- does it mean if there are no hazard signs that it's safe to fish there? Authorities can only genuinely "recommend" what to do other than making places completely off limits. If there is no sign, does that indicate whether you can fish in a particular locale? It would mean signposting the entire coast which is impractical to say the least. Anywhere can be dangerous. What if there were no signs or signage removed by vandals or the sea? Authorities can't become "liable" or negligent for either not erecting signs or failing to indicate any changes to the constantly changing coastal environment. The question of personal safety really comes down to the individual. I don't subscribe to the occurrence of "rogue" swells/waves, there are swells continually inward bound towards land and the ever changing height of the sea determines the height/width/size- even on days of little or no swell, waves/swell will at times come over the rocks at varying heights/power. When you fish the rocks you have to expect this to happen and choose your location wisely. A pre fishing "just-in-case" plan should be discussed, it's better to know what you will do if either yourself or a companion should get into difficulty. This plan should be discussed EVERY trip- it only takes a few minutes while you are observing the location prior to fishing. Escape routes also change with both tide and sea condition. Always try to have an alternate escape plan. Often, there will be a couple of spots that are better to attempt getting back in from should you get washed in. From in the water looking back at the rocks, you may not be able to identify these spots, so take note of the landform directly behind any exact "escape" spots- no good swimming towards the wrong area. More often though, it is a better idea to not attempt getting back in, but rather swim out away from the rocks- you have a lifejacket on so will stay afloat. Others can call 000 and often a rescue will be effected by either boat or helicopter. Take your own safety line with you. You might arrive at a location that usually has an Angel Ring installed and it isn't there- used or stolen. We used to have a cork cricket ball with a hole drilled through it and about 15 meters of venetian blind cord attached. This was tied to a heavier gauge rope. The lighter venetian blind cord enabled those on the rocks to throw the ball to the person in the water accurately and the swimmer could then pull the heavier gauge rope out to hang on to. Paint the ball orange as it's hard to see much in foamy or washy water from water level. I hope you find this useful, I'm not trying to be negative towards your ideas, just realistic. The onus is on the individual in regards to safety. Few people if any can stay upright in green water that races over rock platforms, so all safety concerns should be talked about. I have been washed in and I've participated in rescues and sadly a fatality. The swell was really large the day of the fatality (8 meters+), but the surviving fisherman said to me "why is like this?" -"never like this before, come here many times" he just didn't understand at all and it was really distressing. If it's even slightly dangerous have a plan "B" and go somewhere different, you only get one life. Take care Henry and safe fishing

Great you got out fishing Andrew and good to catch a few fish! Nice pictures also and thumbs up for the wind for once!