Braid Or Mono

[djmac]

lol like you say that website you linked contradicts what you say about line breakage.

probably because they have been testing line using a proper line tester and in proper testing conditions.

companies would not be putting out line if it wasnt professionally tested.

im sure they would end up with all sorts of legal battles.

again if not tested in a proper environment there are a lot of variables.

things like line running through guides under pressure, line being exposed to sunlight,Line touching other line, knot strength, water pressure,drag settings, spool inertia,a rough edge on your guide, reel not properly spooled in the first place, line twist, how the angler fights the fish….the list goes on. this all effects the end breaking strain of your line.

you said "Its much the same as when setting your drag preset weight". id love to know how you set your drags... you would be amazed at how many people set their drags incorrectly, as again there are a lot of variables than can put your drag out quite easily.

there are some very good articles floating around on the net about drag settings. worth a read.

95% of most inshore/bay fisherman will never go close to using there line to even 1/4 of its capacity.

this is why we have drag settings. to prevent line breaking. this is why fishing you never use even close to your rated line breakage point, because tehre are so many variables that can make that line finally break.

you also said"and mind you i was jerking the line like a king would.....so technically it would probably break alot sooner"

thats not an accurate reading as the inertia of movement on the line can cause it to snap with a quick bit of pressure. for an example thats why you have stretch in your line (mono) for certain types of fishing.

your rod and line acts as shock absorption for that reason. and i bet braid was busting alot quicker in this testing scenario as theres no stretch in the line.

90% of the time line is broken it is because the line has either worn down or there has been a problem somewhere along the line. you also do get occasional bad batches of line. i remember a bad batch of stren in 15kg came out that was breaking around 8kgs as tested on a proper line testing machine at broken bay gamefishing club.

its a good experiment to do but i think a better testing environment would give more accurate results.

and if my lines were breaking at those points. id be checking my knots and replacing my line quick smart : )

if we werent confident in todays line, you would all be using 1000pd wire to fish for bream.

[wildfish]

id just like to know if we have tested monos and flurocarbons as well to be fair? testing under same conditions to see how they measure up!

[Mondo Rock]

Those who are pointing out that these tests haven't been done under laboratory conditions should remember that Netic has tested mono using the same technique and found it to break at its rated breaking strain.

Something is going terribly wrong with these heavier braid classes if they are being out-performed by mono.

Netic - have you tested fireline?

[Guest IFishSick.]

Those who are pointing out that these tests haven't been done under laboratory conditions should remember that Netic has tested mono using the same technique and found it to break at its rated breaking strain.

Something is going terribly wrong with these heavier braid classes if they are being out-performed by mono.

Netic - have you tested fireline?

Fireline is the worst braid ever made in my opinion.

Its knot strength is absolutely attrotious and it breaks at 50% of the rated breaking strain.

[namesay]

Here is my 2 cents-

I have been dusted by several large kings recently on my routine 50lb braid. This has not happened to me previously. Parting braid in a straight pull from a fish is not fun!

I set my drag on my reels using scales at 15kgs. SInce we are downrigging and not having 300m of line out, water pressure is not a factor and the braids that got busted were fresh new spools so no damage from over use. All my leaders and knots were the usual ones I had tied.. so no change there.

WHen I tested the new braid, it failed at 10-12kgs!....for something that should have broken at 24kgs. I was of the understanding that most braids were underrated so 50lb braid should have some leeway and should break at a higher poundage.

When I tested my "old" spools, they broke way above 50lbs.

This got a lot of guys testing their braids...Netic and Steve included. Our findings were almost unanimous. The new braids were failing miserably. Some brands were better than others but a lot of stuff out there was CRAP.

I have since reloaded my reels with the older briads and have since had no problems. THe older stuff is definitely thicker than the new stuff. WHether this is part of the problem is something I cannot tell. What I do know is that some braids are not doing their stuff.

I had issues with tufline as well. The spool I had broke at between 8-12 kg for 24 kg breaking strain! When I went to the store and tested another spool, it broke at 23-25kgs!

I think there are quality issues here. SOme brands like Iron braid, fireline, daiwa sensor braid have been OK. THey break above their stated breaking strains.

The exploding popularity of braid may have something to do with these quality issues. High demand means production short cuts. Most people will NEVER test their lines to breaking point but some of us do. If you go hunting for hoods then you routinely use 10-20kgs of drag! IN the past we didn't have the equipment to do this but with modern fishing tackle, fishing 15kgs of drag is routine and it seems the lines we are using are sometimes letting us down. Those of you who have been out fishing with me will know.. it is physical and tough....try standing on your feet with a rampaging hood with 15kgs of drag....just love it!

We now have the fish population to test out gear to the limits so when these lines fail, it is a huge disappointment. It is worse when you find that most of your mates are in the same situation.

I have a feeling that most of the braids in the world are produced by a single manufacturer and differ only in labels and this is the reason that so many braids are failing prematurely. This is not unusual as it happens in most industries. Have a look at when Pan pharmaceuticals went broke! To solve the problem I have contended myself at the moment with the above mentioned braids which seem to be OK. My problem also seems to be stuff procured in 2007. Perhaps there is a bad batch.

I also find that an 8 weave braid like sensor braid is MUCH better. It resists abrasions better as well as give it more strength and suppleness. IT is the cheaper weaves that seem to be the problems. Anyway the only way is to test it for yourself. Only then you'll have the confidence to go "all the way" . Cheers Kelvin

[netic]

Here is my 2 cents-

I have been dusted by several large kings recently on my routine 50lb braid. This has not happened to me previously. Parting braid in a straight pull from a fish is not fun!

I set my drag on my reels using scales at 15kgs. SInce we are downrigging and not having 300m of line out, water pressure is not a factor and the braids that got busted were fresh new spools so no damage from over use. All my leaders and knots were the usual ones I had tied.. so no change there.

WHen I tested the new braid, it failed at 10-12kgs!....for something that should have broken at 24kgs. I was of the understanding that most braids were underrated so 50lb braid should have some leeway and should break at a higher poundage.

When I tested my "old" spools, they broke way above 50lbs.

This got a lot of guys testing their braids...Netic and Steve included. Our findings were almost unanimous. The new braids were failing miserably. Some brands were better than others but a lot of stuff out there was CRAP.

I have since reloaded my reels with the older briads and have since had no problems. THe older stuff is definitely thicker than the new stuff. WHether this is part of the problem is something I cannot tell. What I do know is that some braids are not doing their stuff.

I had issues with tufline as well. The spool I had broke at between 8-12 kg for 24 kg breaking strain! When I went to the store and tested another spool, it broke at 23-25kgs!

I think there are quality issues here. SOme brands like Iron braid, fireline, daiwa sensor braid have been OK. THey break above their stated breaking strains.

The exploding popularity of braid may have something to do with these quality issues. High demand means production short cuts. Most people will NEVER test their lines to breaking point but some of us do. If you go hunting for hoods then you routinely use 10-20kgs of drag! IN the past we didn't have the equipment to do this but with modern fishing tackle, fishing 15kgs of drag is routine and it seems the lines we are using are sometimes letting us down. Those of you who have been out fishing with me will know.. it is physical and tough....try standing on your feet with a rampaging hood with 15kgs of drag....just love it!

We now have the fish population to test out gear to the limits so when these lines fail, it is a huge disappointment. It is worse when you find that most of your mates are in the same situation.

I have a feeling that most of the braids in the world are produced by a single manufacturer and differ only in labels and this is the reason that so many braids are failing prematurely. This is not unusual as it happens in most industries. Have a look at when Pan pharmaceuticals went broke! To solve the problem I have contended myself at the moment with the above mentioned braids which seem to be OK. My problem also seems to be stuff procured in 2007. Perhaps there is a bad batch.

I also find that an 8 weave braid like sensor braid is MUCH better. It resists abrasions better as well as give it more strength and suppleness. IT is the cheaper weaves that seem to be the problems. Anyway the only way is to test it for yourself. Only then you'll have the confidence to go "all the way" . Cheers Kelvin

Thanks for your input Kelvin, I knew you also conducted alot of tests and its good to see that you have now found a good braid...being your older stuff....

Got any spare?????????

[big_steve]

well said there kelvin

steve

[Mondo Rock]

Fireline is the worst braid ever made in my opinion.

Its knot strength is absolutely attrotious and it breaks at 50% of the rated breaking strain.

That's a pretty big call there I Fish Sick. I've been using fireline for a very long time now and in my experience it has been a great product (with the exception of one bad batch).

Netic - have you tested fireline in amongst your many experiments?

[Guest Big-Banana]

Fireline is rubbish, imo!

TUFline or Fins has never let me down.

[Mondo Rock]

I tend to agree Chris.

I think that blanket statements condemning fireline as universally terrible are perhaps a bit overstated considering the fact that it's probably the most common braid used by Fishraiders, and most of us find it to be an excellent product.

That's one of the reasons I'm interested in Netic's experiments and whether he's got any results specifically for fireline.

I can certainly understand that individuals may have had some trouble with it - and I'll put my hand up as one of them (bought a faulty spool and Berkley replaced it) - but given that there are many here who find it an excellent line in general I really don't think accusations that it is a crap product can be supported by the facts. This is backed by Kelvin's comments above that it is one of the few braids he still rates.

(I don't work for Berkley by the way - I'm just a long-time fan of fireline).

[PPSGT]

Heres a pic of how I tie my braid - A bimini twist then a cats paw or Offshore swivel knot

to attach to the swivel.

I have tied this one small to fit into the camera shot, but usually make the braid double long enough

to wind onto the reel.

As the line comes straight out of the windings it doesnt really cut into itself, and their no actual knots

used so the knot strength is about as good as it gets. (except for two half hitches that stop the

binimi twist untwisting )

With lots of practise in know takes less than 60 seconds to tie the whole rig from start to finish

I used this rig style for over eight years at its never had it fail

If tying it direct to mono i just use one of the other knots others have suggested on this post

Jason

[netic]

That's a pretty big call there I Fish Sick. I've been using fireline for a very long time now and in my experience it has been a great product (with the exception of one bad batch).

Netic - have you tested fireline in amongst your many experiments?

Mate i didnt test fireline, And i dont have a comment about it as i have never used it before...from all my research it seems that Daiwa Sensor Braid is the one to get

[namesay]

With braids you have to choose the right braid for the type of fishing that you do. In my experience with braid and I have been using this stuff for about 15 years, some braids are better than others in certain applications.

In my experience a light fused braid is great for casting on a spinning reel. Braids like fireline casts far better than a woven braid on a spinning reel. Upto about 14 lbs, there is nothing to beat it for distance. ONce it gets heavier than that, the line is very springy and difficult to handle.

For heavier applications i.e 30lb and above, the woven braids work better. Their limpness counter acts the thicker diameter. With woven braids, the higher the weave- the better. There is a HUGE difference between the lower and higher weaves. So if you can afford it go for the higher weaves.

ONe area that braids are bad is in knots. They really fall behind mono in this regard. Lines like fire line break way above their stated breaking strengths partly to compensate for the loss in strength when the line is knotted. You really have to know how your lines behave with certain knots for you to have confidence. Most good braid knots are not really knots but wraps.

And always there are bad batches of line. If your line isn't performing as you expected it...get it checked out. Quality control is not the greatest with braided lines at the moment. It seems us fishos are doing the testing for them!!!

If you are fishing with your drag set at 1/3 of the breaking strain of the line then, you really shouldn't have too many issues with knots failing and such. As even when the knot is only 40% of the original line strength, your drag system will keep it from breaking. It is when you start pushing the limits of the line that you encounter failures.

At the moment I am having a lot of fun with fish which are pulling drag set against 15kgs!!! If my gear and knots are not up to scratch, it results in premature failure. The action is demanding on the tackle and the fisho. My Torsa...one of the toughest reels on the planet failed on me the other day. The bearings are gone and the reel is only 4 months old!!!. My stella's bail roller is now wobbly as well.

It is in these applications that are pushing the boundaries of fishing tackle and hopfully if there are enough of us doing this then, the manufacturers will improve their products. If you look at how much 50lb braid is sold compared to the people who actually fish the line to its limits, then the manufacturers can get away with inferior product knowing that the majority of users will never fish it to the limit.

Netic- I have used all my old braid. Got some sensor braid in 60lb. Can trust this line. Cheers Kelvin

[Guest Big-Banana]

Heres a pic of how I tie my braid - A bimini twist then a cats paw or Offshore swivel knot

to attach to the swivel.

I have tied this one small to fit into the camera shot, but usually make the braid double long enough

to wind onto the reel.

As the line comes straight out of the windings it doesnt really cut into itself, and their no actual knots

used so the knot strength is about as good as it gets. (except for two half hitches that stop the

binimi twist untwisting )

With lots of practise in know takes less than 60 seconds to tie the whole rig from start to finish

I used this rig style for over eight years at its never had it fail

If tying it direct to mono i just use one of the other knots others have suggested on this post

Jason

I do mine very similar. Never had it fail as well.

[netic]

Hey guys...

Just thought i would put an update on this post as we did a few more test yesterday.....

After my bust offs on Saturday...one being the 100lb braid snapped due to pressure i wanted to try some new things...

So i headed down to my tackle store and tested a few more things....

now even of the line break is occuring 10cm away from the knot it seems that the knot does effect it and some braid definately are better for certain knots then others....

Yesterday i had 80lb tuna terror (8 weave braid) and we tied a Bimini twist double on it.....

6 tests and the best we got was 14kg out of the line.....Not great

SO then we tried a Plaited Double.......we did approx 4cm of single plait and 2 cm of a double plait.....

Line broke somewhere over 35kg.....tested it 4 more times and had the same results...

Amazing how different knots give you different results....

So from now on i will be plaiting my braid into a double and then putting on a wind on Game leader.....

Hopefully that will limit the bust offs due to line breakage...

But do note...a plait isnt recommended for braid lines under 50lb as it is nearly impossible to get the plait right due to its thinness.....

[Penguin]

Thanks for the info,Netic.

penguin

[Yeeros]

Yeah thanks for the info Netic.

I'll give it a go and hopefully it'll work a bit better.

[namesay]

Hey guys...

Just thought i would put an update on this post as we did a few more test yesterday.....

After my bust offs on Saturday...one being the 100lb braid snapped due to pressure i wanted to try some new things...

So i headed down to my tackle store and tested a few more things....

now even of the line break is occuring 10cm away from the knot it seems that the knot does effect it and some braid definately are better for certain knots then others....

Yesterday i had 80lb tuna terror (8 weave braid) and we tied a Bimini twist double on it.....

6 tests and the best we got was 14kg out of the line.....Not great

SO then we tried a Plaited Double.......we did approx 4cm of single plait and 2 cm of a double plait.....

Line broke somewhere over 35kg.....tested it 4 more times and had the same results...

Amazing how different knots give you different results....

So from now on i will be plaiting my braid into a double and then putting on a wind on Game leader.....

Hopefully that will limit the bust offs due to line breakage...

But do note...a plait isnt recommended for braid lines under 50lb as it is nearly impossible to get the plait right due to its thinness.....

I am very glad you did this experiment as I have had the same thing happen. The more turns you do on a bimini, the worse the line strength becomes. BUt it is NOT the knot itself that seems to weaken it.

I have found that the twisting of the braid that occurs when you tie knots like the bimini weaken it considerably. There are some sites which have done similar tests and they have found a12 turn bimini to be stronger than a 40 turn. Of course this doesn't make sense until you realise that the braid above the knot is being twisted as you tighten up the bimini.

I found that after tying the knot, if you unravel the line twists above the braid then you will get a good result. If you fail to unravel the twists then the braid will fail way below what is normal.

I also super glue the ends of all my braid knots as a routine. This has worked really well for me but doing a plait will achieve the same twist free knot. After tying the knot, I always put it back on the scales to check it. This is the only way you can fish the line to the limits.

I am happy to say that by being very careful of the braid you buy and checking the knots for twists, I have not had a bust off since!

I also troll my lines regularly behind my boat to get rid of line twist that gets generated from routine fishing. WIth woven braid, this is essential to get the maximum out of your line. Cheers Kelvin

Edited March 19, 2007 by namesay

[mcownage]

I also troll regularly behind my boat to get rid of line twist that gets generated from routine fishing. WIth woven braid, this is essential to get the maximum out of your line. Cheers Kelvin

my lines

bloody good idea that i will have to remember it

[jacob]

after reeding all these posts i had to get my lines out to check and my 50lb broke at 20-25, the 20 broke at 9 but my 6 was always breaking a little over 7-8 lb. the 20lb is a little old but so its not a true reading but the 50 is basically new. not a happy camper lucky mono to replace it is cheap.