Spinning Reel and Rod - Buying

[Armpits]

Hey all, I’m thinking of buying a new reel and rod roughly want to spend $120-150-200 max. Got a few questions.

-Will a 3000 reel size fit the fishing I do? Estuary, rocks and land based. What sort of fish am I able to catch? Kingfish and Jews? Is there a limit on how heavy?

-Looking at the rods what would be a good length for above terrains and style?

- Also what does the weight rating mean on the rods? Can someone explain?

- Would it be better to buy in a combo or reel and rod seperate? Looking at Boating, Camping, Fishing or is there someone better to buy from?

[Rah]

Try dinga, they are a site sponsor. 

Also remember no posting of non site sponsors. Via pm only please. 

 

Cheers

Rah  

[DerekD]

Hi Armpits.

Depending on the manufacturer there are a few numbers on the rod. For example, my Shimano raider 762 (7 foot, 6 inches 2 piece) bream finesse has 2-4kg which is the recommended line rating (alternatively roughly 4 to 8lb. Note: 1kg - 2.2lb ) and 3-12gm which is the recommended lure weight. My Shimano Raider Snapper 762 has a 5-8kg line rating (I use 10 or 15lb braided line) and the recommended maximum lure weight is 45gm (1.5oz). Other companies use a PE rating on the rods or reels. The PE system is based on line diameter but for a general rule of thumb multiply the number by 10 to get a rough pounds rating. So for a PE 1-3 I'd be considering 10 to 30lb line. I have a mate who puts 10lb braid (would break a fair bit higher) on his bream rod but he has damaged the runners fighting kings too hard.

A lot of fishing gear selection is compromise. I do most of my fishing on the two rods mentioned above. Being graphite they are very responsive. There is enough strength in them to handle good fish. The largest king on the bream gear was 70cm. The largest king on the snapper rod was 80cm (which I am pushing to improve this summer) and I given some reasonable working room I'd feel comfortable chasing a 1m king on it. The drag on the reel protects both the line and the rod.

My biggest jewfish was 104cm and that was taken on a 5 to 10kg rod with a baitrunner with 20lb line. At no stage did I feel like I was going to lose the fish.

For a medium range spinning rod a 3000 or 4000 reel with a 5 to 8kg rod will handle well and more importantly it will feel balanced.

I'd go a little higher on the budget but if you look around you can get the Shimano Snapper raider for about $100 with a Sienna for about $60 and some money left over for braid. Even if you don't buy one of the Raiders pick it up and feel the weight and stiffness and at least use it as a benchmark for the rod you do end up buying.

Regards,

Derek

Edited January 5, 2018 by DerekD

[Armpits]

I was looking into more of Daiwa brands. Still don’t quite understand the rod weight rating. And lure weight where does it specify it and is this for the maximum sinker weight you can put on the rod? Where can I find this info? Complete newbie.

What would be better buying as a combo deal or buying seperate?

To barrow it down for you guys to help me:

I will be picking a Daiwa reel but have no clue which size. I will be fishing most land based and occassional rock fishing when good weather, mostly Estuary and chasing Pelagics but not monster size. Mostly legal to medium size I want to catch. What size reel would fit the type of fishing I am doing? 3000? 4000? Or lower?

For the rod, I am after a 7 foot spinning rod. What would be a good weight rating for the type of fishing I’m doing? Is the higher weight rating the heavier the rod will be? The heavier the rating the larger fish the rod can handle without breaking?

Also I prefer light feel to the gear as it is more comfortable than heavier gear.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Armpits

[savit]

Rods may have one or several ratings. They are usually in ranges e.g. 2-4 kg.  If the rating is in lb or kg - it is suggested line rating for the rod.  If the rating in g (gram) - it is suggested lure/casting(bait+sinker) weight.  If the rating in PE - it is suggested line thickness rating. If you multiply stated  PE  rating by 10 you will get aproximate line rating in lb.  

Usually all the available info is on a rod and rod manufacturer website.  Sometimes full information is on tackle shop website. 

 

 

[DerekD]

Hi Again,

On Daiwa or Shimano rods they usually put the details on the body of the rod just above the grip. I have attached a photo of two of my traveller Shimano rods. If you look closely you can read all the rod details. If I am specifically chasing a bream or flathead with a light sinker or lure I use the 2-4kg rod. Pick up a 10gm lure and feel the weight of it. Then pick up a 60gm lure and imagine casting it with that same bream rod - unless you are careful you are likely to snap the tip of the rod casting such a heavy weight. If I am using big baits (think whole squid and sinker) then I use my 5-10kg rod.

My Daiwa Wicked Weasel has similar information being a 2-5kg line rating with a 1-10gm lure weight rating. Some companies including Daiwa also include letters which may be what is confusing you. For example on the Daiwa Wicked Weasel 2 the model is listed as a GB 6102MLFS which means it is a 6 foot 10 inch long rod with a Medium Light Action (smaller fish), a Fast taper (more bend in the tip of the rod) and it is a Spinning rod (not an overhead reel).

Buying a package is an advantage in that they have usually matched the reel to the rod and given you a discount because you are buying two items. I spend more on my reels so I like to mix and match and I know what I am looking for out of the outfit.

You are right, the heavier the line rating the heavier the rod. If I am reading your post correctly it sounds like you are after a 7 foot rod with a either a 4-7kg or a 5-8kg rating and a 3000 or 4000 reel with 10-15lb braid or mono. As per my post previously look at the Shimano Snapper rod. Furthermore, spend some time in a fishing shop and pick up the rods - look at the ratings on the rod and then look at the rod itself. Give the rod a flick to feel the stiffness and responsiveness. Your local tackle shop is better in that they can give you tailored advice. The chain shops are good in that they can bulk buy so they have better deals but the advice is a bit lacking. If you know what you are exactly after then it is not an issue.

Looking at some of your questions in your recent posts I'd suggest you find a mentor with a fair bit of fishing experience (ideally with a lot of lure experience too) as most of what you are asking for is easier to show than write about. Most of us have spent years or decades filling in the gaps in our knowledge as we try new things or new techniques and technology becomes available. It sounds like you are trying to shorten the learning process dramatically but it still takes time.

Regards,

Derek

Edited January 5, 2018 by DerekD

[rozza_b]

Mate, 

To be honest go to your local tackle store (not a shop) and tell the guys what you want to do and your budget they will be able to help you out or at least point you in the right direction. You honestly might not be able to get 1 rod that covers all the bases you have mentioned i would think something in the 4-6kg range with a 3000 reel size would probably be suitable for what you have mentioned, for fishing from rock ledges i would look at something with a bit more length helps manage fish near the edge

[xerotao]

Also dont forget saving some monies for line!

[Armpits]

Back again, I bought the Daiwa Revros 3000 spinning reel and a Shimano 6.6 foot, 4-8kg rod to go with it.

Mainly got this setup for Estuary and Pelagics fishing. Would a 4-8kg rod be able to handle rat to legal size Pelagics fish? I wanted something comfortable and light weight. The lightest gear possible.

Also might just keep this short 6.6 foot rod for all land based and if possible for rock fishing. If it is too short for the rocks then I would need to buy another rod to suit the rocks. Does anyone know what is a good size for rock fishing? Also are there any light ones around or it will be heavier?

Edited January 7, 2018 by Armpits

[MainframeJames]

I have a 6ft and 8ft rod and even the 8ft can sometimes be a little short for rock fishing because you can't always be right at th edge of the water from the rocks. 

A short rod with light line on the rocks is a recipe for lots of broken line, lost tackle and lost fish. Also bear in mind that every time the line breaks while fighting a fish, the fish then is stuck swimming around with a hook or lure and line stuck in it's mouth, which I don't think is very humane. I'd rather have a fish ignore a heavier line than break me off on lighter line. 

For the lightness factor you're after, just remember that you will have to compromise, especially if you don't want to spend hundreds on the rod. Find a few of the right length that fit the line rating and cast weight you're after, and hold each one in your hand. Give them a good shake and see how they feel. Point each one straight up and then lower it to horizontal and then back to vertical. Once you've done that with a few rods, you should have one that feels right. 

[DerekD]

The rod will easily handle a rat king and even a better specimen but it depends on how you fight it and what structure there is in the area. Kings generally fight to the end and you can lose them just when you think you have them beat. Just picked up my third shore based king for 2018 (all three were about 60 -63cm) this afternoon on similar gear with a 15lb braid. Fought like a bigger fish and since I had the time on the wharf I was fishing from I annoyed it at times (flicked the rod) to let it do its runs out in the harbour and not near the structure I was on. Several weeks ago my friend had a similar king on the same wharf pretty well beat but wasn't as experienced with close to structure fishing and he lost it as it dove under an oyster encrusted pylon. The group I fish with land 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 hooked from that wharf and that includes pulled hooks as well as bust offs from structure. The other two kings I hooked and landed were both of the rocks. I used my 7'6" Raider snapper for all three kings. The other people had longer rods which might have been an advantage in close but my rod was so much better for imparting the action I wanted to the lures I was fishing. The line came back chaffed for the second king but I had enough presence of mind at the time to shift the rod around to change the angle of the line relative to the structure.

Let the drag do its job and you shouldn't lose too many unless they get close to structure. What pound mono or braid did you get? Learn the lift then wind technique to fight a fish and practice it on every fish you catch so it becomes second nature. Fighting with your own drag is a waste of time (trying to wind the fish in like the reel is a winch). Don't high stick the rod.

Edited January 7, 2018 by DerekD

[Armpits]

On 07/01/2018 at 8:51 PM, DerekD said:

The rod will easily handle a rat king and even a better specimen but it depends on how you fight it and what structure there is in the area. Kings generally fight to the end and you can lose them just when you think you have them beat. Just picked up my third shore based king for 2018 (all three were about 60 -63cm) this afternoon on similar gear with a 15lb braid. Fought like a bigger fish and since I had the time on the wharf I was fishing from I annoyed it at times (flicked the rod) to let it do its runs out in the harbour and not near the structure I was on. Several weeks ago my friend had a similar king on the same wharf pretty well beat but wasn't as experienced with close to structure fishing and he lost it as it dove under an oyster encrusted pylon. The group I fish with land 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 hooked from that wharf and that includes pulled hooks as well as bust offs from structure. The other two kings I hooked and landed were both of the rocks. I used my 7'6" Raider snapper for all three kings. The other people had longer rods which might have been an advantage in close but my rod was so much better for imparting the action I wanted to the lures I was fishing. The line came back chaffed for the second king but I had enough presence of mind at the time to shift the rod around to change the angle of the line relative to the structure.

Let the drag do its job and you shouldn't lose too many unless they get close to structure. What pound mono or braid did you get? Learn the lift then wind technique to fight a fish and practice it on every fish you catch so it becomes second nature. Fighting with your own drag is a waste of time (trying to wind the fish in like the reel is a winch). Don't high stick the rod.

Thanks for the info, my line I have 10 pound mono spooled on my new reel and 12 pound flurocarbon leader. I see a lot of people using braid, do you know what the difference? Pros and cons to using it and any info on them.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Armpits

[nutsaboutfishing]

Braids a lot thinner than the equivalent strength in mono, so you can fit a lot more on the reel, but braid doesn't have much abrasion resistance compared to mono. With braid you'll be able to cast much further than mono.

that's all i can think of off the top of my head

[Rob81]

Also mono has stretch and braid is more sensitive

[bluefin]

Derek, Your Wicked Weasel Is Weak. Mine is 6 kg and 14 gram.    Howard.

[DerekD]

5 hours ago, bluefin said:

Derek, Your Wicked Weasel Is Weak. Mine is 6 kg and 14 gram.    Howard.

Hi Howard,

You are right, it is weak (hanging my head in shame). Have you got the series two? Bought mine years ago as a replacement for the Daiwa Spellbinder a fishing mate accidently damaged - I still talk to him but it was a close one.

At the time I was writing the response I didn't want to go down to the car to get the numbers off it so I did it from memory.

Derek

Edited January 9, 2018 by DerekD

[DerekD]

Hi Armpits,

Allowing for my tendency to use more words than less there is still a bit of information to consider relating to the choice of fishing line. The way I see it is there a predominantly three types of fishing lines used (going to exclude fly lines in the following explanation) for most fishing these days. They each have their niche and I think that someone who claims one particular type is far superior to another might be a little blinkered in their thinking.

Monofilament or Mono has been around for the longest and is usually made from nylon and is generally least expensive. It has a good abrasion resistance. It can stretch between 10% and 25% and has good shock strength/absorbtion which is a huge asset when you have an angry marlin shaking its head on the other end of the line. Most overhead game fishing reels I have seen run mono. It has a relatively slow sink rate. Easy knot tying. On the downside it often has a larger diameter for breaking strain. It is not particular sensitive to bites and I find it way too spongy to be enjoyable when fishing lures. It is also affected by UV and often has memory which can result in birds nests.

Fluorocarbon looks similar to mono but it is denser so sinks faster, has a refractory index similar to water so it is supposed to be more difficult to see. It has an excellent abrasion resistance and less stretch than mono which can make it easier to feel bites and set the hook. It is not supposed to be affected by UV light. It is usually way more expensive per meter than mono. In due course you will come across the discussion about how much Fluoro leader to use with two rod lengths being often quoted. My preference is a maximum of 80cm to 1m. Firstly, regardless of which leader knot it is (FG, Uni to uni, surgeons) I can feel it running the guides. Secondly, if you snag up then unless you are using the FG knot it is likely to break at the main line to leader knot and I don't particular feel like losing 4m of Fluoro each time. There are times when you will use longer fluoro and this is often by the bream anglers working the sand flats and they will often run fluoro all the way through.

Braids (dyneema, Spectra, PE, etc., can be fused or plaited). Very popular due to their low stretch (supposedly 1%) and high sensitivity (I can feel a fish biting the bait over 100m away). Small diameter compared to breaking strain. They are more expensive but they have better UV resistance. I have some braid on a few of my rods which I have been fishing 5 years or longer. People talk about them having less abrasion resistance but my personal experience is that based on line rating they are not as good as mono but based on diameter they have better resistance than mono.

I have all three lines somewhere within my outfits. It all comes down to what I am doing with them. I predominantly use braid but will pull out the mono if I am fishing for blackfish or on my overhead 15kg trolling outfit.

Do some further research to learn about top-shotting fishing line.

[fisholb]

mate

check out dinga

been buying all my gear from them since they started selling online

most of my gear are penn i think its value for money and i havent had any issues with penn

i recommend the penn 4500ssv reel with 30lb braid line dinga got it on special atm

rod size 5kg-10kg length 7ft-10ft

[DerekD]

You mention you are using 10lb mainline with a 12lb fluoro leader - my personal opinion (others may disagree) is that this arrangement doesn't give you any major benefits. For such a slight rating difference I'd be running your mainline all the way to the terminal tackle. As a general rule my leader is between 1.5x to 2.0x of my mainline. So for 10lb mainline I'd be running 15 to 20lb leader. My mainline is generally braid but I'd use the same philosophy for your setup. Remember that joiner knots are a weak point so you've just dropped the strength of your line for no major gains in abrasion resistance.

Just something to think about.

[bluefin]

Derek, I have a version one and a two. Fishing wise no difference. I also have a one that has been re built after loosing 3" off the tip. Now throws 20 gram lures well !  Howard.

[savit]

1 hour ago, DerekD said:

You mention you are using 10lb mainline with a 12lb fluoro leader - my personal opinion (others may disagree) is that this arrangement doesn't give you any major benefits. For such a slight rating difference I'd be running your mainline all the way to the terminal tackle. As a general rule my leader is between 1.5x to 2.0x of my mainline. So for 10lb mainline I'd be running 15 to 20lb leader. My mainline is generally braid but I'd use the same philosophy for your setup. Remember that joiner knots are a weak point so you've just dropped the strength of your line for no major gains in abrasion resistance.

Just something to think about.

I think the major benefit is for the fish.  It will not have to survive with 20m of mono behind it - if the line breaks on knot between leader and mainline. 

[DerekD]

2 hours ago, savit said:

I think the major benefit is for the fish.  It will not have to survive with 20m of mono behind it - if the line breaks on knot between leader and mainline. 

Hi Savit.

I'm still not quite seeing it (I can be a bit slow at times ). If it is straight mono it should still break at the terminal knot (say fishing hook, or sinker or swivel) which means the fish shouldn't have 20m or similar trailing it. For a 2lb increase in line strength I wouldn't bother with a 12lb leader on a 10lb line class.

Since both the nylon and fluorocarbon are likely to be clear/opaque there is not really an appreciable advantage switching from one to the other. I would use a 12lb fluoro leader with say a 6 or 8lb mainline (braid or mono).

Regards,

Derek