Patternoster vs weightless vs running sinker?

[Fab1]

Mate at work asked me what's the difference between a running sinker rig with sinker on hook and a running sinker rig with sinker on swivel?

When and where to use rigs like these and patternosters? He fishes in bays from boat and shore from what he tells me.(Never seen him fish or fished with him as he's central coast based).

I told him I use running sinker on swivel with a trace about a meter long so it moves in the current in shallow water bellow about 5-6 meters and patternoster in deeper water or on the drift chasing flathead.

I really don't know if it's right or wrong but has worked a few times for me when I actually get out there and try.

 If anyone can post when to use each rig,in what water depths and why it will hopefully help someone new to fishing including a mate and myself.

 Have a great Chrissy everyone.

Cheers.

[Pickles]

Great question Fab, I usually use a running sinker rig with no swivel when there is little or no current and fishing ultra light (4-6 lb). I have the smallest lightest ball sinker I can get away with, sometimes no sinker at all. This is especially so with live bait (Nipper, prawns or Yakkas / Slimies) etc

[kingie chaser]

Here are an explanations you can pass onto your mate re the running rig to swivel.

 

 

Never really use the running sinker to hook at all.

Edited December 23, 2021 by kingie chaser

[noelm]

There's a place for all those rigs, and variations of them too, first off, unweighted, this is usually done with little or no current, or for close in around the rocks, it allows for a very natural bait presentation. Lightly weighted, this rig is used from estuary to deeper water for Snapper from an anchored boat, it consists of a small ball sinker running right to the hook, the sinker used will be just enough to get the bait into a burley trail, or keep in near the bottom in faster running water. Sinker to swivel, this allows a bigger sinker to cast out, or hold bottom, but not interfere with bait presentation. Paternoster, tied properly, it's used for drifting, or bottom fished when anchored, a sloppy double loop arrangement is not ideal and will limit catch rates, but a decent tied setup works OK.

[Fab1]

17 hours ago, Pickles said:

Great question Fab, I usually use a running sinker rig with no swivel when there is little or no current and fishing ultra light (4-6 lb). I have the smallest lightest ball sinker I can get away with, sometimes no sinker at all. This is especially so with live bait (Nipper, prawns or Yakkas / Slimies) etc

When do you use a swivel and sinker above it?

17 hours ago, kingie chaser said:

Here are an explanations you can pass onto your mate re the running rig to swivel.

 

 

Never really use the running sinker to hook at all.

I assume in the deeper water you use a patternoster then?I find I end up a tangled mess with the running sinker to swivel in the deep.

16 hours ago, noelm said:

There's a place for all those rigs, and variations of them too, first off, unweighted, this is usually done with little or no current, or for close in around the rocks, it allows for a very natural bait presentation. Lightly weighted, this rig is used from estuary to deeper water for Snapper from an anchored boat, it consists of a small ball sinker running right to the hook, the sinker used will be just enough to get the bait into a burley trail, or keep in near the bottom in faster running water. Sinker to swivel, this allows a bigger sinker to cast out, or hold bottom, but not interfere with bait presentation. Paternoster, tied properly, it's used for drifting, or bottom fished when anchored, a sloppy double loop arrangement is not ideal and will limit catch rates, but a decent tied setup works OK.

Good explanation mate.i use a single hook patternoster instead of 2.

[noelm]

A sinker running to a swivel is used when you need more weight, but still allow a fairly natural bait presentation, a sinker setup like this can tangle in deeper water (drifting for Flathead) because the sinker can slide up the line away from the swivel, a second swivel just about the sinker can eliminate this. As far as a Paternoster goes, I use a different setup (hate 3 way swivels) I just tie a swivel on the line with a really long leader, this is where a simple loop is tied on the leader end for the sinker, then off the swivel a shorter leader for the hook, tied to the same end as the sinker dropper, this allows the main line to still untwist via the swivel, plus you have a good knot and a single strand on your hook "dropper" works a treat for drifting for reef fish, the hook is well off the bottom.

[noelm]

Just a kind of side note on the sinker/swivel setup, I have a mate that fishes almost exclusively for Flathead (in the ocean) and he makes his own sinkers, a simple medium size barrel sinker, but, he has a swivel moulded in at each end, he just ties his main line to one end and his leader and hook to the other, the sinker does not "run" he reckons it outfishes a Paternoster by miles, never tangles and is quite simple really.

[Fab1]

3 hours ago, noelm said:

A sinker running to a swivel is used when you need more weight, but still allow a fairly natural bait presentation, a sinker setup like this can tangle in deeper water (drifting for Flathead) because the sinker can slide up the line away from the swivel, a second swivel just about the sinker can eliminate this. As far as a Paternoster goes, I use a different setup (hate 3 way swivels) I just tie a swivel on the line with a really long leader, this is where a simple loop is tied on the leader end for the sinker, then off the swivel a shorter leader for the hook, tied to the same end as the sinker dropper, this allows the main line to still untwist via the swivel, plus you have a good knot and a single strand on your hook "dropper" works a treat for drifting for reef fish, the hook is well off the bottom.

I find the running sinker to swivel in deep water the leader gets tangled around the mainline as the sinker goes down quicker than the hook/bait and the current tangles it all up.

I've read about your method of patternoster before(Never tried it) I just tie a simple loop in the line about 16-20 inches from snapper lead which is a double obviously or if I want a single strand to hook I snip one end off the loop.

3 hours ago, noelm said:

Just a kind of side note on the sinker/swivel setup, I have a mate that fishes almost exclusively for Flathead (in the ocean) and he makes his own sinkers, a simple medium size barrel sinker, but, he has a swivel moulded in at each end, he just ties his main line to one end and his leader and hook to the other, the sinker does not "run" he reckons it outfishes a Paternoster by miles, never tangles and is quite simple really.

I would of thought it would tangle as the lead would go down quicker than the baited hook and the current would wrap the trace/hook around the mainline.

[wizza]

Noel  e m,your rig would  use a l ot less fluorocarbon leader,just the 40 cm or so to the hook,rather than all down to the sinker.

[noelm]

Yep, mind you, for Flathead and the like, there's no need for Flurocarbon, a well presented bait won't spin on the way down, a blob, or bent Pilchard (especially the head) will spin.

edit...most loop knots are weak, unless you can tie a good one, and can cut one strand, your chances of getting a bite have diminished, as has the strength of your line.

Edited December 24, 2021 by noelm

[noelm]

Just to add, and I will get flamed for this, the old three loops, one for the sinker, the others for two hooks, just tied with what's basically a granny knot, is a sad rig at best, learn to tie rigs properly, present baits properly and your catch rates will triple.

[Restyle]

I prefer to fish unweighted off jettys and in medium to no current. if you constantly open your bail and let a a few meters of line come out and drift with the current its pretty deadly on bream, flattys, jew and pannies. easy to tie as well, fg knot and 1 meter of 10lb fluro.

This rig dose wonders in most bays at port hacking (gunners, yowie, lillipilli). It dose take time for it to sink to the bottom in deeper water but I have a lot more consistent bites & larger fish then with a sinker setup 

 

I use a lighter sinker for the Georges and aim to get the same action as with the unweighted bait, current in the river is strong on the outgoing tide so with an unweighted setup the bait will basically float. A light dropper sinker (swivel moulded in). a swivel and 1m of leader. The sinker is a running sinker as sometimes when i open the bail arm, the sinker will remain on the bottom, but bait will move along the bottom with the current. I have pretty good luck with jewfish doing this in the Georges. 

 

heavy sinker rigs can be used for the same thing but i mostly use them off the beach and for poor man downriggers for kingfish. Also good if you need casting distance from the shore. 

 

 

[Fab1]

8 hours ago, noelm said:

A sinker running to a swivel is used when you need more weight, but still allow a fairly natural bait presentation, a sinker setup like this can tangle in deeper water (drifting for Flathead) because the sinker can slide up the line away from the swivel, a second swivel just about the sinker can eliminate this. As far as a Paternoster goes, I use a different setup (hate 3 way swivels) I just tie a swivel on the line with a really long leader, this is where a simple loop is tied on the leader end for the sinker, then off the swivel a shorter leader for the hook, tied to the same end as the sinker dropper, this allows the main line to still untwist via the swivel, plus you have a good knot and a single strand on your hook "dropper" works a treat for drifting for reef fish, the hook is well off the bottom.

Is this how you tie your patternoster?

[noelm]

Yep, that's how I do mine, much stronger, little to no tangles, the sinker line can be adjusted to suit how you want the bait to sit, in snaggy country, use a lighter line for the sinker and make it long.