1/2 cabin to centre console advise

[Dan0]

 

Hi folks,

Hoping someone can maybe talk some sense into me, am seriously thinking of cutting the top of my 1989 fglass Fraser formula half cabin and making it a centre console. Or at least doing all the cutting and handing it over to a workshop to finish off.  Reasons are, never use the beds area except for storage of esky etc. Kids / dog dont like boating. Would be nice to have the ability to walk up to the front as the hatch is a bit of a pain. Not sure i like the look of that screen anyway, also the top of the windscreen is right at eyeline height so i have to duck a little, or stand on something to look over it. I do really like the clean uncluttered look of some of the centre console builds ive seen. Anyway, am now wondering how much would it all cost to do a 6m boat. Should i just clean it up and be happy with what i got.

cheers

 

[frankS]

I have done what you plan twice, once on an old 17 foot half cab . Cost I can't tell you as I done all the work myself from cutting off the cabin to fibreglassing all the rough edges into a nice form and making the centre console from plywood overlayed in fibreglass .

Probably around $100 in plywood and $400 in glass matting and resin. Then around $400 in steering and cables. but that was 20 years ago. Took around 12 months work on and off and week ends.

The 2nd one was on a mates 20 foot cab, he paid for all materials and helped me with the work.

You need to do some planning and heaps of re-planning as once the first cut is made there is no turning back.

I would say if a centre console is really what you want, go for it.

Frank

[Dan0]

Thanks FrankS - have been thinking about it for a while, So planning stage wont cost anything at least so will start there.

I have hardwood planks spare from house reno - plenty , so thats a start. Lots measuring up next. 

cheers

[noelm]

There's a bit to consider, first running steering and control cables, you will need to cut the floor up to do that. Then there is the console itself, as Frank said, you can make it yourself, but the finish will take some work. Next is strength, see if the cabin structure forms part of the structural integrity of the hull. It certainly can be done with a bit of care and moderate skill, I personally wouldn't  cut it to bits, then take it to a professional, get them to do the lot (and it won't be cheap) or buy another centre console boat.

Edited July 29, 2022 by noelm
Typo

[Fab1]

I’d pick out of the be happy with what you got option or sell it and buy something else to your liking.Nice boat.

  Personally I think you’re mad hacking into it and getting rid of all that protection/Dry storage space to be exposed to all the elements.Your boat do as you please at the end of the day.

[zmk1962]

20 hours ago, Dan0 said:

Would be nice to have the ability to walk up to the front as the hatch is a bit of a pain. Not sure i like the look of that screen anyway, also the top of the windscreen is right at eyeline height so i have to duck a little, or stand on something to look over it. I do really like the clean uncluttered look of some of the centre console builds ive seen.

I'm a bit late to this chat, but I'm very much with @Fab1 on the commentary. I would also add, that removing all that superstructure will change the weight distribution and hence ride of the hull.  You will need to consider that in the layout and fitout of the resulting centre console.

Having owned a half cab Haines 635L for many years I faced the same problems/options/dilemma as you.  Here's how I waded through that:

1) Walking up front through painful hatch: I doubt you fish off the front on your rig, so the two reasons to go there would be:

a) for anchoring - a real PITA with that type of cabin/hatch set up. Solution: install an anchor drum winch and do all your anchoring from the helm. I've posted technique and video in workshop. Or use a bridle system and anchor from stern using your bowline.

b) to launch or retrieve if you're fishing solo. Solution: install boat catch system on your hull and trailer.

2) Windscreen at eye level: I hated mine. I'm a short fella, so first thing I made was a removable platform below helm to stand on. At least I wasn't ducking or standing on my toes for km's on end, but the raked screen always threatened to rearrange my teeth. Solution: Reslope that screen and use plate glass (your plexiglass has probs crazed anyway) and while at it, get rid of the bimini and go hardtop. It absolutely transformed my boat in terms of space, visibility and sheer comfort. Here's a few shots as pictures speak 1000 words:

Original: 1990 design raked screen, crazy low bimini .. looks fast BUT you couldn't sit and drive (too much reflection on screen), couldn't stand due to bimini...  had to fold it down to look over the top....bleh! 

First iteration: Pretty much where you are at - clears above screen so at least you can stand... I opted for fixed bimini (not foldable)

Final Solution: ... most fishriaders know the big 6ft model shown there he usually holds a banana 🤣... alloy hardtop, plate glass front and wings. Clears on side. 

The angle of the photo makes it look as if a lot of rear deck has been lost, so here's a photo showing the remaining deck space still in play (on a 6m boat). Plenty of fishing space left. Side clears are rolled up for ventilation.

And heres a view that shows the uncluttered visibility. 

So in summary I opted to clean my rig up and retain the dry storage area - which meant we could overnight in comfort etc. It certainly made the boat more comfortable and feel safer. I have had many green waves over the bow and up the glass screen, many rain squalls pass by - and all was good and dry inside!  I recently sold this boat, but all these considerations have been carried forward to the new boat we bought - cabin, hard top, plate glass, drum winch, boat catch.... all were mandatory. 

Anyway, as Fab said, it's your boat and your decision ultimately. Only you know how you want to use the boat. In my view, everything I have suggested above would cost a fraction of the cost of reworking your rig into a centre console.

If boating in a centre console is what you want, sell your rig and go negotiate on one .... BUT if what you really want is a hands on "project boat" that you can truly call your own ... then get the jig saw out !  @TK01 did that with a boat built from scratch. 

All the best with your decision.

Cheers Zoran

[Fab1]

20 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

I'm a bit late to this chat, but I'm very much with @Fab1 on the commentary. I would also add, that removing all that superstructure will change the weight distribution and hence ride of the hull.  You will need to consider that in the layout and fitout of the resulting centre console.

Having owned a half cab Haines 635L for many years I faced the same problems/options/dilemma as you.  Here's how I waded through that:

1) Walking up front through painful hatch: I doubt you fish off the front on your rig, so the two reasons to go there would be:

a) for anchoring - a real PITA with that type of cabin/hatch set up. Solution: install an anchor drum winch and do all your anchoring from the helm. I've posted technique and video in workshop. Or use a bridle system and anchor from stern using your bowline.

b) to launch or retrieve if you're fishing solo. Solution: install boat catch system on your hull and trailer.

2) Windscreen at eye level: I hated mine. I'm a short fella, so first thing I made was a removable platform below helm to stand on. At least I wasn't ducking or standing on my toes for km's on end, but the raked screen always threatened to rearrange my teeth. Solution: Reslope that screen and use plate glass (your plexiglass has probs crazed anyway) and while at it, get rid of the bimini and go hardtop. It absolutely transformed my boat in terms of space, visibility and sheer comfort. Here's a few shots as pictures speak 1000 words:

Original: 1990 design raked screen, crazy low bimini .. looks fast BUT you couldn't sit and drive (too much reflection on screen), couldn't stand due to bimini...  had to fold it down to look over the top....bleh! 

First iteration: Pretty much where you are at - clears above screen so at least you can stand... I opted for fixed bimini (not foldable)

Final Solution: ... most fishriaders know the big 6ft model shown there he usually holds a banana 🤣... alloy hardtop, plate glass front and wings. Clears on side. 

The angle of the photo makes it look as if a lot of rear deck has been lost, so here's a photo showing the remaining deck space still in play (on a 6m boat). Plenty of fishing space left. Side clears are rolled up for ventilation.

And heres a view that shows the uncluttered visibility. 

So in summary I opted to clean my rig up and retain the dry storage area - which meant we could overnight in comfort etc. It certainly made the boat more comfortable and feel safer. I have had many green waves over the bow and up the glass screen, many rain squalls pass by - and all was good and dry inside!  I recently sold this boat, but all these considerations have been carried forward to the new boat we bought - cabin, hard top, plate glass, drum winch, boat catch.... all were mandatory. 

Anyway, as Fab said, it's your boat and your decision ultimately. Only you know how you want to use the boat. In my view, everything I have suggested above would cost a fraction of the cost of reworking your rig into a centre console.

If boating in a centre console is what you want, sell your rig and go negotiate on one .... BUT if what you really want is a hands on "project boat" that you can truly call your own ... then get the jig saw out !  @TK01 did that with a boat built from scratch. 

All the best with your decision.

Cheers Zoran

Excellent reply as always mate.Sounds like your new boats going to be a pearler and well worth the wait.Let’s hope you get as many happy years out of her as you did with your previous one.

[zmk1962]

8 hours ago, Fab1 said:

Let’s hope you get as many happy years out of her as you did with your previous one.

Thanks mate. That would put me well into my late 80s…. I can only dream to be offshore boating in my own boat at that age !!!! 
cheers Z 

[Dan0]

Thanks so much everyone for the comments and thoughts. Reviewing the posts did offer a lot to think about, though i do really like the idea of changing it - i would be off the water for a long time not to mention costs, and we are already itching to go out. I do appreciate the comments around being exposed and did recalI the odd ocasion ive been caught out staying too late, north of Moreton then trying to get back to Scarborough with a following sea and blowing, odd wave over the bow, you do appreciate all that front end cabin / protection on those days for sure. 

At this stage as keen as i am on changing it around, might just live with it for now anyway. It is such a solid built boat can possibly be a bit more clever and widen that hatch or do something to make the front deck more accessable. Will now focus on raising the window height, and either fix the bimini or do that hard top idea - basically along ZMK1962 boat mods which look really great and make a lot more sense at least in this situation.

While measuring up and just generally taking the opportunity to have a really close look at everything, have found a couple of issues that are going to take priority those being repair the damage we found along one of the chines, battery cable needs changing and some lighting work. 

The plan now is a massive tidy up, pull all the old carpet out, sand the floor back and flowcoat for a nice white finish, radio, screen and top, and install a bulkhead between deck and bed area as its all open. Basically on the water much sooner and a lot less $ 

Cheers

Dan

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Dan0

[Dan0]

Looking to get some repairs on the hull re damage on the chine, just wondering if that timber goes in through the hull aka is it part of a stringer or are they adhered to the hull and just a quesiton of cut back, sand, re fit another piece of timber then glass in, though am guessing its not going to be that easy.

cheers

another issue toward the stern, 

 

[noelm]

Don't want to scare you, but that is not going to be easy to fix, that's substantial damage, and probably some internal rot. You will need to cut the floor out and repair it from the inside to make it a proper long term repair. It looks like it might have been "patched" before? How long have you had the boat?

[Dan0]

Owned it for maybe 2 or so years, the guy i bought it off said he had a bolt that was sticking out of the trailer that he had at the time and it got caught, he said it was all fixed, i couldnt see anything when i bought it, though he was pointing toward the back rather than here.  From what you are saying this goes all the way through the hull, explains why i get a ton of water in as well.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Dan0

[noelm]

Yep, plenty of water will go in there, are you intending to do the repair yourself? It sure looks like a quick "patch" has been done there before (not a repair, two very different things) 

[Fab1]

I’m with Noelm.That has been Bogged up so it can be off loaded to an unsuspecting buyer mate.That damage will be the tip of the iceberg you see.It always is.

[slowjigger]

Fortunately fiberglass is amenable to repairs. Where it goes all the way through the hull you will have to cut up the floor and glass it from the inside. It's not that difficult if you do your homework and are reasonably handy. 

It makes more sense to bring it up to scratch than changing the whole structure with a centre console conversion. 

[Dan0]

Yep tip of the iceberg, always wondered where all the water was coming in from.  slowjigger = absolutely right, at this point its about getting the basics spot on and sorted. 

Aside from some mild panic setting in, i guess its a great opportunity to really get to know the boat. Have decided to take it into a shipwright / boat repair shop in north Bris for a thorough inspection.  I recon will leave structural stuff to the experts, am ok on tools but dont want to muck around with that aspect. Floor will have to come up for sure or at least a few access points cut out for inspection, likely the lot. I wanted a new floor anyway, this has just pushed that. 

Am kicking things off by pulling everything out including all the old carpet and seats in preperation for the inspection. Will ask the repairer would it be worth getting the hull bead blasted to see condition all over and find any other potential issues, not sure if that is something they do on glass though.

Looking ahead am guessing there may be some options on how to fix it, at this point i dont really know what to say apart from as good as new. But maybe i should be stating what materials, preferred repair method etc, though there may not be any option apart from cutting it all out and glassing etc.

Its not the ideal start to a mini project but there it is. Will try remember to take some some photos and post as things progress if anyone is interested.

cheers

 

[Bryant fish]

Mate don't panic it's probably not a big deal any older boat will need some work.yeah leave the structure  to experts if your not confident but fibreglass work is not that hard just slow and messy I've done my transom and floor it is doable

[noelm]

It's easily a home job if you have basic skills and tools, but, it's not a lot of fun doing all the cutting, repairing is pretty easy, preparation is not.......best guess they will cut one side of the floor out, investigate rot and repairs just to see what's what inside.

[Dan0]

Quick update,

Just dropped it at the repairer. First thing he noticed was the pod edges were pushing into the transom, quick check confirmed its rotten through. Also found the spongy floor toward the rear. They will lift it up on the hoist for a better look as he suspects the hand painted anti foul may be hiding a ongitudonal crack as we can see something at the rear keel area.

Some good news was the subfloor construction is all fibreglass ladder he was quite happy with that.

One thing we talked about was marine ply vs thermolite or coosa with him preferring the ply. Ive looked into both and am leaning toward ply as well. 

Cheers

 

[noelm]

Advantages in all materials, ply is cheap, easy to get, easy to work with, and if properly done (not like most "legendary" boats were built) it will last for decades, especially if care is taken when drilling holes.

[Fab1]

1 hour ago, noelm said:

Good luck finding Companies/staff/Humans that will take “Care” in this day and age where the cookie cutter is set to warp speed to get products out the door as cheaply as possible for the largest profit margin mate.

  I can assure you other boats besides Haines would have their issues with quality/care.Each and every single boat or anything ever built has had their problems one way or another.

  One of the blokes here bought a 120k caravan from a well known famous manufacturer and it’s been issue after issue.There’s boys here with cars ranging from humble little Hyundais,Mazdas, to Mercs  and Audi’s and they all have issues.

  The caravan owners old 34yr old caravan had less issues than the new one.

[Dan0]

noelm - I recon the ply will be the go, cant justify the huge cost difference between the products. As you say with proper prep will last years, and easier to work.

Fab1 - Its a different world now for sure. I did some research on my boat prior to purchase and actually found out that in 1989 these boats were all still hand laid glass, not chopper gun, they used to make them in WA. 

I guess 30 years isnt a bad run for a transom - still solid in some parts actually but looks like someone didnt seal the bolt c holes correctly at some point years ago and the water just did its thing over the years getting in, the damage is to the middle and all around the main bolts areas. It seems to dry out as it goes to the sides and up, but that may be missleading. Either way its out. 

They are going to cut it all out from the inside leaving the outside "skin" in place and then refit new transom from the inside, I thought they cut the whole rear off but the bloke says they will clamp it all in place and when done will be better than new. 

[noelm]

From the inside is the best method, but, it's harder work, it allows proper adhesion to stringers and floor section (that you said was soft) it's a bonus if it does have a solid glass underfloor structure. Rot from unsealed holes is the major cause of transom rot.

Edited August 12, 2022 by noelm
Typo

[Dan0]

13 hours ago, noelm said:

From the inside is the best method, but, it's harder work, it allows proper adhesion to stringers and floor section (that you said was soft) it's a bonus if it does have a solid glass underfloor structure. Rot from unsealed holes is the major cause of transom rot.

Yep thats what we ahve agreed on regarding any through holes. Only ones we found so far are the two toilet through hull fittings, we found weeping around one of the brass fitting when inspected so am getting those fittings removed and the two holes glassed up. With the damage underneath a chisel to the two holes revealed no penetration through the hull glass, the dirty coloured weeping water was just that section of timber giving way.  All that will all be sanded back and re glassed and finished off etc with a new section of timber to match. 

Transom plan is definately to cut it all out from inside - side to side top to bottom - plus prepare about half mtre or so of the stringers and hull going forward so everything gets glassed and tied in nicely. Just wating on that quote.

 

[noelm]

14 hours ago, Dan0 said:

Yep thats what we ahve agreed on regarding any through holes. Only ones we found so far are the two toilet through hull fittings, we found weeping around one of the brass fitting when inspected so am getting those fittings removed and the two holes glassed up. With the damage underneath a chisel to the two holes revealed no penetration through the hull glass, the dirty coloured weeping water was just that section of timber giving way.  All that will all be sanded back and re glassed and finished off etc with a new section of timber to match. 

Transom plan is definately to cut it all out from inside - side to side top to bottom - plus prepare about half mtre or so of the stringers and hull going forward so everything gets glassed and tied in nicely. Just wating on that quote.

 

Not too sure I understand that bit, what timber did you dig at with the chisel?