Educated bream

[DerekD]

Hi all,

I've heard for years that bream can get educated but it was not till yesterday that I realised how significant that piece of knowledge actually was.

Went to Cottage point yesterday for lunch with a couple of friends. While sitting upstairs overlooking the water I dropped a piece of banana bread down on the usual school of bream sitting by the structure. There were some super large bream in there and there were a lot of them too. Bread was smashed by several fish and didn't last long. My bird's eye view made it very easy to see them and how they moved.

A little later a competition style fishing boat complete with electric motor came into the area. The two gents were expertly skimming plastics into the area. Someone pointed out where the school was and a shrimp type white plastic lure was promptly flicked into the water above the bream. I saw the fish swarm and then a bream race off with the lure in its mouth. The gent hooked up and made an easy show of bringing the bream out. It happened to be one of the smaller specimens of around high twenties. On releasing the bream he had a couple more flicks into the same section of water. Not a single bream went for the lure this time. In fact I couldn't see a single bream there. It really highlighted the importance of covering new ground when chasing bream.

On a downside, unfortunately I also dropped my favourite Shimano fishing cap in the general area and by the time I realised I wasn't going to be driving back. Looks like a trip to the fishing store is in order.

Regards,

Derek

Edited August 26, 2023 by DerekD

[big Neil]

Do you think this behaviour is limited to Bream? My limited saltwater experiences would indicate (to me) that other species don't necessarily act in that way. Flathead, Tailor, and Salmon are often caught one after another, in the same area or the same school. What do you think?

bn

[Green Hornet]

I have a special snag in a small creek, where I fish land based for black bream that rarely fails to produce. The thing is you get one cast and it has to be a good one, otherwise the fish will reject anything you throw at them. In a perfect scenario, two of us can cast and both hook up simultaneously. 

You’re absolutely wasting your time if you continue to cast, but if you leave the place alone for around 20 minutes, you’re odds on for another fish and they behave like you’d never been there before. Urban bream may be a little more savvy.

So yes, keep covering new ground, though it often pays to revisit productive areas after giving it a half hour rest.

Bummer about the hat, but a good excuse to visit the tackle shop.

[noelm]

It’s funny how fish “know” something is wrong, I have seen a school of fish eat every scrap tossed over the side, yet completely ignore even the best prepared bait using the same piece as the burley they happily devoured. I once read an article explaining how research has been done (how I don’t know) on fish returning to “spots” we all know certain places attract fish, but if that place is consistently fished, even another generation of fish will not feed there, that’s why a place gets “fished out” no idea how true that is. To add to this theory, there’s a place near me, called locally as the “Church Ground” it used to be red hot for big Kingfish every year, but over time, it just fizzled out, why? How come next years fish know? The same pinnacle is still there, the schools of bait are still there.

Edited August 26, 2023 by noelm

[noelm]

3 minutes ago, big Neil said:

Do you think this behaviour is limited to Bream? My limited saltwater experiences would indicate (to me) that other species don't necessarily act in that way. Flathead, Tailor, and Salmon are often caught one after another, in the same area or the same school. What do you think?

bn

I think schooling fish just get in a frenzy, and take anything, Flathead are just too silly to know their mate has just been yanked out of the water!

[Yowie]

2 minutes ago, noelm said:

 Flathead are just too silly to know their mate has just been yanked out of the water!

🤣

[Yowie]

Bream are a fairly smart fish, being a slow grower gives them more time to be educated at a larger size.

In saying that, I have thrown in fish skeletons and watched the bream fight over the scraps. Lobbing a large chunk of fish in will sometimes see the larger bream swim up, look at the bait then hover and swim around it, and a smaller fish will grab it first. At other times, the larger bream will race in, grab the bait, swim off a little distance then you set the hook. It all depends on how hungry the bream are, they are individuals like us.

A handful of burley will get most fish species into a feeding frenzy where they grab any bait, whereas no burley and the fish just swim around your bait but not eat it.

Movement of the bait/lure away from a fish usually causes the fish to chase it as it is a food source moving away and trying to escape.

[big Neil]

3 minutes ago, Yowie said:

Bream are a fairly smart fish, being a slow grower gives them more time to be educated at a larger size.

In saying that, I have thrown in fish skeletons and watched the bream fight over the scraps. Lobbing a large chunk of fish in will sometimes see the larger bream swim up, look at the bait then hover and swim around it, and a smaller fish will grab it first. At other times, the larger bream will race in, grab the bait, swim off a little distance then you set the hook. It all depends on how hungry the bream are, they are individuals like us.

A handful of burley will get most fish species into a feeding frenzy where they grab any bait, whereas no burley and the fish just swim around your bait but not eat it.

Movement of the bait/lure away from a fish usually causes the fish to chase it as it is a food source moving away and trying to escape.

Good point about the slow-growing Bream being able to "learn more" as they grow but using that theory in reverse, Mahi Mahi should be the dumbest being that they are the fastest-growing fish. What do you think?   bn

[Yowie]

Just now, big Neil said:

Good point about the slow-growing Bream being able to "learn more" as they grow but using that theory in reverse, Mahi Mahi should be the dumbest being that they are the fastest-growing fish. What do you think?   bn

Well b.n., could they be the dumbest or the hungriest? 

Being a fast growing fish, they need to eat all the time so would be grabbing anything and everything to stop the hunger pain. 

Looking at tailor, at times I have pulled them up, the mouth is full of whitebait, pieces of whitebait falling out, yet they still grab your bait or lure. Maybe just the killer instinct in them to keep feeding.

[noelm]

I guess what it all comes down to is….fish are pretty basic species, they eat when hungry, and food is present, whether they chase it, wait for it to come close or some other method. Now I seriously doubt any fish has swum up to a bait, stopped and thought “hang on, that’s a 3/0 triple black, chemically sharpened turned down eye sprout hook and that Berkeley braid”  but…..somehow nature has “something” built in to all living things to know there’s potential danger, look at something as simple as a (say) cat and a dog or bird, how can little birds know to be scared of cats? Of course now and then, there’s a not so switched on one, and it gets caught/eaten.

[Little_Flatty]

1 hour ago, DerekD said:

Looks like a trip to the fishing store is in order.

Sorry about the hat Derek, but you and I know you’d find any excuse to go back to the tackle shop!🤣 

Did you throw the anglers one of Waza’s chips?

I have NEVER caught a bream I could see. NEVER!

On the topic of educated fish, I think my ruse with the harbour luderick on fly is up. No more beginner’s luck, I’m going to need to earn any subsequent fish!

[Little_Flatty]

26 minutes ago, noelm said:

I guess what it all comes down to is….fish are pretty basic species, they eat when hungry, and food is present, whether they chase it, wait for it to come close or some other method. Now I seriously doubt any fish has swum up to a bait, stopped and thought “hang on, that’s a 3/0 triple black, chemically sharpened turned down eye sprout hook and that Berkeley braid”  but…..somehow nature has “something” built in to all living things to know there’s potential danger, look at something as simple as a (say) cat and a dog or bird, how can little birds know to be scared of cats? Of course now and then, there’s a not so switched on one, and it gets caught/eaten.

Yeah I’ve suspected it has more to do with how a bait or lure moves in the water, rather than the hook or line itself. That is why lighter presentations (both line and weight) often get better results. Heavier line or heavier sinkers cause baits/lures to move differently, hence fish sense something isn’t quite right with your offering.

[Green Hornet]

2 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

 

I have NEVER caught a bream I could see. NEVER!

Hey Mike, on the creek I mentioned above we watch bream stalk the lure all the time and its an education in itself seeing how they react to pauses and twitches, as well as the way they react differently to floating and suspending hard bodies.

Walking softly, camo clothing and hiding behind tree trunks etc is key. Even standing motionless right on the edge of the bank I’ve had bream that fixated on the lure they’ve hit it only a couple of meters from the rod tip.

 

[Yowie]

3 hours ago, Little_Flatty said:

I have NEVER caught a bream I could see. NEVER!

 

You are not trying hard enough Mike.  🤣

Though not a regular occurrence, I have observed bream take a bait, swim off then hook it. Usually when there are a few fish frames in the water, the bream lose their cautious nature and charge in to take the bait floating down before others do so. I have also caught them on floating bread crusts - the bream will hover near the bread then make a charge at it. Just a matter of letting the bream swim a short distance then tighten the line for a hook-up.

Having only caught a couple of bream on lures, I cannot comment there.

One day while squidding, I felt a number of hits on the jig, so retrieved it from the bottom, kept feeling hits and it was a bream, not much longer than the jig, snapping at the jig until the surface.

[Little_Flatty]

7 hours ago, Yowie said:

You are not trying hard enough Mike.  🤣

Though not a regular occurrence, I have observed bream take a bait, swim off then hook it. Usually when there are a few fish frames in the water, the bream lose their cautious nature and charge in to take the bait floating down before others do so. I have also caught them on floating bread crusts - the bream will hover near the bread then make a charge at it. Just a matter of letting the bream swim a short distance then tighten the line for a hook-up.

Having only caught a couple of bream on lures, I cannot comment there.

One day while squidding, I felt a number of hits on the jig, so retrieved it from the bottom, kept feeling hits and it was a bream, not much longer than the jig, snapping at the jig until the surface.

Probably not  For most part I'm too busy or lazy to fish with bait, unless it is bread.

I haven't been in any situations where there were surface feeding bream and I could legally get a rod out and throw a bait out too.

[faker]

14 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi all,

I've heard for years that bream can get educated but it was not till yesterday that I realised how significant that piece of knowledge actually was.

Went to Cottage point yesterday for lunch with a couple of friends. While sitting upstairs overlooking the water I dropped a piece of banana bread down on the usual school of bream sitting by the structure. There were some super large bream in there and there were a lot of them too. Bread was smashed by several fish and didn't last long. My bird's eye view made it very easy to see them and how they moved.

A little later a competition style fishing boat complete with electric motor came into the area. The two gents were expertly skimming plastics into the area. Someone pointed out where the school was and a shrimp type white plastic lure was promptly flicked into the water above the bream. I saw the fish swarm and then a bream race off with the lure in its mouth. The gent hooked up and made an easy show of bringing the bream out. It happened to be one of the smaller specimens of around high twenties. On releasing the bream he had a couple more flicks into the same section of water. Not a single bream went for the lure this time. In fact I couldn't see a single bream there. It really highlighted the importance of covering new ground when chasing bream.

On a downside, unfortunately I also dropped my favourite Shimano fishing cap in the general area and by the time I realised I wasn't going to be driving back. Looks like a trip to the fishing store is in order.

Regards,

Derek

I had that happen twice yesterday at mosman bay, followed me twice and then not a single bream in area would touch anything. And they were cruising around right there. they weren;t big big but they definitely could take the curly tails being lobbed at them from afar.

[Jiggy]

I've experienced on a number of occasions well educated bream that would not play the game. Years ago I was at South West Rocks, and trying to catch some herring for bait in back creek, when a local commercial operator pulled in and started cleaning his catch. Jewies, decent sized and plenty of them. Anyway as soon as the guts hit the water bream came screaming in to feed, many of them big with some huge. So I pitched out an unweighted herring fillet; ignored.

Live herring; nope. I scooped up some floating guts and cast that out. That got a few swimming up to look at it before ignoring it. I thought maybe they are seeing the line so I went down to 4 pound. FYI this is pre braid so it's mono. Made no difference. I then found some small, red hooks in my box, I stitched that in to some red coloured guts and cast that out. I had bream take that, but all small. The big ones would swim up and eyeball it, then swim off.

Over the next couple of days I tried everything I could think of; I think I got a bit obsessed with them. Yabbies, small crabs, lure, bread, all with the use of berley. Caught lots of small ones but none of the big ones. FInally on the last day I caught one on a whole garfish I'd caught that morning, a small silver hook inserted into it's rear with just the point showing. Fished unweighted in 4 pound mono no trace. I don't know what it weighed but it was 56 centimetres long and fat like a football. I'd call it 3 to 3.5 kilos but that could be wrong. Like I said some of these fish were huge and very well educated. A local had warned me that these fish were uncatchable, and he was pretty well right. Pretty sure if I tried again, using the same bait, it would have been ignored.

I haven't been back to SWR for a while, but I reckon those big bream are still there and still pretty well uncatchable.

Cheers

Rob

 

[GoldenHourFishing]

This is not related to what was being thrown in front of them but rather there reaction to one being hooked up and spooking the rest of the school. I would have come back in an hour or so and grabbed another one. 

[Jiggy]

Yes that will put fish off, but these buggers were like that from the get go, before any were hooked. I thinks it's something they've learned watching other fish get caught, or being caught and escaped/released themselves. But I could be wrong.

Cheers

Rob

[kantong]

Those well educated fish always know where the no-fishing signs are too and quite happily swim about in the open!

[Hoods]

Well - I wonder where the highest educated Bream are??

I think those at Tuncurry Co-Op wharf are highly educated most I would consider at PhD level.

Back creek at SWRocks I agree are also uncatchable.

The Bream at Nambucca Heads are fed every day by locals & tourists alike and I found them also equally educated.

I pulled a nice one off the breakwall at Nelson Bay marina years ago so no points there.

[dirvin21]

Bream are seriously cunning fish I've spent many frustrating hours trying to fool xos marina fish, the other fish I've seen demonstrate that level of frustrating intelligence are southern mangrove jacks the cooler water temps must fuel brain development because sometimes I swear i see them thinking before refusing my lure