I swear the Luderick hate me

[TheFishyFisherman]

Hello raiders. Went for a quick session at Narrabeen near the car park so a short report. Was using prawns as bait and was using very small sinkers and fine line (6lb) and caught 2 luderick on the prawn. Obviously, I was happy with the results but was also a little ticked off because I wasn’t happy on how it caught them. I’ve been chasing this species for 2 months with a pencil float set-up that I copied from a different thread, using sea cabbage and stringy weed with no results and now I catch them on PRAWN ON A RUNNING SINKING RIG. Just when I switch back to bottom fishing with sinkers I FINALLY CATCH LUDERICK. I know that they are omnivorous (used to get them as a by-catch then targeting other species) but I just found it annoying when I finally catch some blackies when I’m not targeting them. 🤣🤣🤣 Those fish must really hate me. Unfortunately, I didn’t take photos because they were only small fish and were safely released. Now I’m determined to catch them on the cabbage/weed even more becuase I know that they are still around but I’m still confused why I couldn’t get them on cabbage when I was using the traditional rigs. Maybe I’m doing something wrong? 🤔
 

Cheers 😄

Edited August 29 by TheFishyFisherman

[XD351]

If you got them on a running sinker rig you got them on the bottom , maybe you’re not running your float rig deep enough ? Certain times of year they will shy away from the green stuff and eat prawns . 

[faker]

1 hour ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

Hello raiders. Went for a quick session at Narrabeen near the car park so a short report. Was using prawns as bait and was using very small sinkers and fine line (6lb) and caught 2 luderick on the prawn. Obviously, I was happy with the results but was also a little ticked off because I wasn’t happy on how it caught them. I’ve been chasing this species for 2 months with a pencil float set-up that I copied from a different thread, using sea cabbage and stringy weed with no results and now I catch them on PRAWN ON A RUNNING SINKING RIG. Just when I switch back to bottom fishing with sinkers I FINALLY CATCH LUDERICK. I know that they are omnivorous (used to get them as a by-catch then targeting other species) but I just found it annoying when I finally catch some blackies when I’m not targeting them. 🤣🤣🤣 Those fish must really hate me. Unfortunately, I didn’t take photos because they were only small fish and were safely released. Now I’m determined to catch them on the cabbage/weed even more becuase I know that they are still around but I’m still confused why I couldn’t get them on cabbage when I was using the traditional rigs. Maybe I’m doing something wrong? 🤔
 

Cheers 😄

Have you tried using cotton float stopper and bead to adjust variable depth?

[TheFishyFisherman]

I used to use an adjustable bead but it was too big to fit through the rod guides so I tied on a bit of braid instead and set it at 3 meters instead. I use pencil floats. Obviously there are a lot of flaws in tying the braid around the line as a stopper but that’s what I was told to do by a guy who owns a tackle store and another guy. Also I don’t want to have 3 or more metres of line out because of the rubber stopper as I am about to cast so that’s another reason I did that

Edited August 29 by TheFishyFisherman

[TheFishyFisherman]

1 hour ago, XD351 said:

If you got them on a running sinker rig you got them on the bottom , maybe you’re not running your float rig deep enough ? Certain times of year they will shy away from the green stuff and eat prawns . 

I usually fish balmoral for them becuase I see a couple swimming about and it’s the only spot I know well. Maybe I should try the rocky parts where it’s safe. I’m still trying to find a suitable float stopper so that’s why I’m using a piece of braid tied into the main line to use as a stopper instead

[ireallylovefishies22]

i've also had trouble with the float stoppers fitting through my rod guides, but I trim them down with a pair of scissors after i attach it to the line. Looks ugly but it works.

[Yowie]

During spring - which is next week - blackfish will be more carnivorous in their diet. Prawns, shrimp, squirt worms, blood worms, nippers, though nippers can catch them most times of the year.

[Ryder]

I think you’re fishing too deep. Narrabeen is quite shallow. Try starting at 1m deep and then go deeper.

 

[JimT]

In my much younger days circa 1980's I use to catch heaps of blackfish at Cooks River near airport on Botany Bay wrigglers and green nippers (that's what we called them) in Sept when they were full of roe etc and size was always around 1kg plus. But that was then.......

Edited August 29 by JimT

[Steve0]

Larger ones move into estuaries to breed, immediately after which, they seem to want protein.  The time varies along the coast. Far South Coat, it happened late October or early November in my experience. Probably, the phase of the moon may have something to do with timing. 

[TheFishyFisherman]

1 hour ago, ireallylovefishies22 said:

i've also had trouble with the float stoppers fitting through my rod guides, but I trim them down with a pair of scissors after i attach it to the line. Looks ugly but it works.

Ohhh that’s a really good idea!!! I’ll definitely try that.

 

1 hour ago, Yowie said:

During spring - which is next week - blackfish will be more carnivorous in their diet. Prawns, shrimp, squirt worms, blood worms, nippers, though nippers can catch them most times of the year 

That’s good to know 😄

[TheFishyFisherman]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

I think you’re fishing too deep. Narrabeen is quite shallow. Try starting at 1m deep and then go deeper.

 

Oh. I meant that I use 3 metres at balmoral. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

[XD351]

You didn’t mention you were fishing two different locations either. Do you know approximately how deep the water is at balmoral? I dare say a lot deeper than Narrabeen lagoon ! Narrabeen was for me set so the bait was around two feet off the bottom as it is fairly shallow and that was when the hole at the caravan park was fairly deep ( late 70s - early 80s) 
The way I search for them is to start out around 20ft in deep water  and  if this doesn’t hit bottom run a couple of drifts - if it hits bottom  then adjust so the bait is somewhere around half a metre off the bottom , If I don’t get any downs come up a metre and repeat . My experience is they will rise for a bait but usually won’t go deeper . Once you find what depth they are at note this down as your starting point for next time at that location . In shallow areas like Narrabeen I just set so I get bottom with the split shot ( float still laying over ) then come up a metre and go from there . If I hit bottom during the drift ( float starts to lean over ) come up a foot in depth.

That’s my way of doing it and I’m sure others will have a different approach so try them all and see what works for you .

[XD351]

Are you using the rubber stoppers like these? They come in a variety of sizes , sometimes you have to run two in a row as a single one sometimes doesn’t have enough holding power and slips up the line .

 

When I was a kid and before they invented the stoppers pictured above we used a length of wool ( used for knitting) and the knot below - it worked but was a little chunky and sometimes got caught up in the guides .

[Burger]

Welcome to the ‘joys’ of Luderick fishing 😅😇

As others have said, in spring after spawning they do seek to increase protein in their diet, however I believe you will always catch more consistently  on string or cabbage.

Attached below are the stoppers @wazatherfishermanput me onto and as he suggested I use two. If you would like some to try DM me and I’ll post you some.

Do you test how deep the water is when you fish? We still do that at places we regularly fish.

I use a small barrel sinker (size 0) and rubber ring and attach this to the hook or line. This will over weight the float and sink it to the bottom. Just adjust your depth so you can see the float is 3 or 4’ under, then remove the sinker and your bait will sit that distance off the bottom!

The attached shows the stoppers and sinker, for refer nice the hook is a Daiichi 2171 size 8.

Hope this is of some use, 

stu.

[TheFishyFisherman]

Whoops. Sorry guys I didn’t make it clear that I was fishing two spots 😞. I fish balmoral for luds and I was just fishing for any bread and butter species at the lake and got a few accidentally. 

30 minutes ago, Burger said:

Welcome to the ‘joys’ of Luderick fishing 😅😇

As others have said, in spring after spawning they do seek to increase protein in their diet, however I believe you will always catch more consistently  on string or cabbage.

Attached below are the stoppers @wazatherfishermanput me onto and as he suggested I use two. If you would like some to try DM me and I’ll post you some.

Do you test how deep the water is when you fish? We still do that at places we regularly fish.

I use a small barrel sinker (size 0) and rubber ring and attach this to the hook or line. This will over weight the float and sink it to the bottom. Just adjust your depth so you can see the float is 3 or 4’ under, then remove the sinker and your bait will sit that distance off the bottom!

The attached shows the stoppers and sinker, for refer nice the hook is a Daiichi 2171 size 8.

Hope this is of some use, 

stu.

I use a size 0 ball sinker - should I change it? Also I can’t DM you for any stoppers at the moment unfortunately 😢

 

4 hours ago, XD351 said:

Are you using the rubber stoppers like these? They come in a variety of sizes , sometimes you have to run two in a row as a single one sometimes doesn’t have enough holding power and slips up the line .

 

When I was a kid and before they invented the stoppers pictured above we used a length of wool ( used for knitting) and the knot below - it worked but was a little chunky and sometimes got caught up in the guides .

That sliding knot seems to be really useful. I was doing something similar but with braid. Will go hunting for any smaller stoppers, if I can’t find any, I’ll just trim them like how ireallylovefishies22 does.

Edited August 29 by TheFishyFisherman

[Burger]

22 minutes ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

I use a size 0 ball sinker - should I change it?

Do you use this to test depth? Or is it to balance your float?

If to balance your float, you should have just an inch or so of stem showing. The weight of sinkers needed will vary for each float.

My favourite estuary float balances with just the orange tip (about half an inch) showing using a 1 barrel and have other floats that take a 0 and more that take a number 2 barrel.

Fave float is the middle one in the first photo

 

here are a few others…

 

No worries about dm, I understand.

Edited August 29 by Burger

[TheFishyFisherman]

Mine have a bright green tip. I usually put it n the sinkers to balance it so about 2 cm of the tip is showing. Is the tv remote in the first photo a float too? 🤣

[sashkello]

Balmoral at the end of the jetty is very deep. Luderick will not take bait which is hanging in top half. You would have your stopper way up the rod, going few turns around the reel even to reach proper depth there. 

Did you get no downs at all? Then it's probably the depth. Float or leader don't matter that much TBH, as long as float is balanced and your leader is below 20lb they should take it. 

[Little_Flatty]

One thing I will add to the others' good advice is to fish a known spot until you start to see success. You fish Balmoral I see. Stick at it, or pick another spot and stick at it. Then try different tides and vary baits/methods until you hit paydirt.

My report from this morning was at a spot where I donutted about three times before I landed on a rig/method/bait that worked. And even that might've been a fluke. But I stuck to the spot and eventually succeeded.

Learn to plumb the depth. That has been a revelation to me; it takes the guesswork out! I use a heavy sinker attached to a piece of foam (or cork). Rig up, put the hook into the foam and then put the rig in the water. Does you float go under? If yes, you need to set deeper. If not, then you need to go shallower. Then I adjust the depth until my float sinks under about a foot or two. When I'm done with this, I pull up the rig, remove the heavy sinker/foam and start fishing.

[Burger]

34 minutes ago, TheFishyFisherman said:

balance it so about 2 cm of the tip is showing

Sounds good to me! 👍

[Burger]

One of my pb’s came off the wharf at Balmoral. So you can get them there.

[TheFishyFisherman]

6 hours ago, sashkello said:

Balmoral at the end of the jetty is very deep. Luderick will not take bait which is hanging in top half. You would have your stopper way up the rod, going few turns around the reel even to reach proper depth there. 

Did you get no downs at all? Then it's probably the depth. Float or leader don't matter that much TBH, as long as float is balanced and your leader is below 20lb they should take it. 

Ok thanks.

 

6 hours ago, Burger said:

One of my pb’s came off the wharf at Balmoral. So you can get them there.

I saw some guy who kept pulling in fish over 35cm + while using sea cabbage. He actually taught me how to make the rig.

[faker]

8 hours ago, sashkello said:

Balmoral at the end of the jetty is very deep. Luderick will not take bait which is hanging in top half. You would have your stopper way up the rod, going few turns around the reel even to reach proper depth there. 

Did you get no downs at all? Then it's probably the depth. Float or leader don't matter that much TBH, as long as float is balanced and your leader is below 20lb they should take it. 

I would disagree. On depth of fishing amongst pylons. On a high tide they feed higher up on algae they can't access during a low tide. The pylons serve as vertical structure

[XD351]

3 hours ago, faker said:

I would disagree. On depth of fishing amongst pylons. On a high tide they feed higher up on algae they can't access during a low tide. The pylons serve as vertical structure

Possibly but it depends on the amount of growth down deeper , there may be a reason for the excess growth up the top maybe  as you say they can only access at really high tides or they simply just don’t eat it .