wazatherfisherman

Hi Andrew the cons of paravanes are that they stay on your line while fishing and are mostly suitable for smaller sized lures/baits- I don't know if they still sell the larger variety. The Yamashita (I think it's Yamashita haven't used it for years) diving board was a bit larger and when you got a strike they flipped over 180 degrees which reduced line pressure. You might be able to add a small Scotty brand release clip to a larger paravane so you could run it independently of your line- just a thought

Thumbs up for the paravanes and I still have a Yamashita "Diving Board" shaped like a bent-up mini surfboard that had a few different tow-point holes for different depths- no comparison to a downrigger but helped catch a few fish and to be honest I don't think 'riggers' were really on the Aust market back then!

I will be really surprised if you don't get a couple of Kingies on it up your way- even from the regular Bonito haunts. The new lures might "match the hatch" better but they don't swim like the good old feathers. Hope you have success- might start a "resurgence" of some older style gear!- Also can buy about 10 feathers for the price of a new trolling lure!

Those feathers were the "go-to" lures for fishing the walls in flood for jew. We used to sell a whole range of them mail-order when I worked in tackle shop. They have a "sexy" wiggle on retrieve! Maybe you should try the old white feathers next time you go for a troll! They caught just about everything that you could get trolling but lost favour to new "flashy" types of Konaheads and skirts which are of course good for billfish etc but like many have said not responsible for that many Kingies

I read them as well- can't remember if it was Aust Angler or Anglers Digest that had a cover picture of 4 blokes with about 15 huge (50 lb +) jews taken on feathers and "chair leg" lures off South Ballina wall. Ross Garvan/vin wrote a couple about same at Yamba "T Piece"

I went through 2 rods- Butterworth JS980 "Jig King Deluxe" (Deluxe had a roller tip) then a custom Ironglass GH 10 or 14 can't remember which and 3 reels Penn Senator 113H (30 LB) then Penn Jigmaster 500l Aluminium spool (20 lb) then Daiwa Sealine 350H (10 kg- when ANSA changed to kg's)- I'd struggle to have 2 drops with the high speed jig these days LOL! Still have 2x JS980 Butterworths but the reels were stolen from Carramar nearly 20 years ago

Hi Blackfish the bigger one for the Peak and the smaller one was great at Montague Island. I have one larger one and 3 of the smaller ones (brand new!) left, 2 hot pink 1 orange. Agree was best jig at the time!

Hi Volitan that is a very interesting and well thought out theory. I swear by the bright fluoro orange colour and it looks like nothing I've ever seen alive in the water, nevertheless it always invokes interest and more often than not a swipe at it from a curious (if not hungry) Kingy. My favourite deep dropping jig was a fluoro orange "Speed King Swivel Hip", favourite "minnow" Speed King XSP 9 inch in bright pink- neither resemble any baitfish I've ever seen, but a reef dweller mmm you might be onto something here!

Thanks Baz legend! That one's got better eyes than the old ones I'm talking about, but exact right lure- I usually pull the red ones out. Thanks again!

Hi GoingFishing sorry I can't take photo's of them as I'm moving to Murwillumbah on the 10th of December and they are packed in storage at Kennards. Maybe another raider could put a picture of one up? They are the basic silver headed red eyed white or red/white feathers. Or if you are an older fisho you may have the mother of pearl eyed version? Thanks in advance!

Hi Paddy totally agree leadlining and handlining them not at all a sportsfishing method. Also anyone that hasn't had a go at doing it that way is in for a bit of a shock, as pulling them in while the boat is moving is really hard work! Just a follow-on from putting the occy leg on the feathers is why I posted it. Agree totally if you're serious about Kings inshore use yakkas,slimies and squid/cuttlefish and downrig and/or use a flasher. Pike are in my opinion as good or better than squid and I made my own crude moulds and produced a soft plastic 'version' which I've given to quite a few Raiders at a couple of different social meets. No feedback on any/no results as yet, but I'm convinced they'll work fine

G'day GoingFishing - when the smaller sized fish are schooled up close in along the coast (between now and Christmas) and you often see them on the surface, the "old fashioned" lead headed white feathers in 6 inch length are a good way to get them. Head size 2 to 4 oz (50-100 gm) gets them down a couple of metres and a single 8/0-10/0 34007 hook on about 50 lb leader is fine. When buying these old style lures they usually come with red plastic eyes- knock them off and put a piece of mother of pearl tape or 'shell' tape in the moulded eye cavity of the lure (you'll get more fish if you do this)- they used to be available with the pearl eyes but haven't seen them for quite a while. Before the shell/pearl tapes were available a mother of pearl button was glued into the socket, but if they weren't done evenly the lure could spin, the tape is easy way. If this wasn't working, an occy leg about a foot long was simply added to the lure's hook, just push hook through about a cm down the leg so entire hook is still exposed and leg trails freely. You can also use a squid candle but I had more success with the occy and you'll get several fish on each leg before they get it off. With the squid, they often get it off, not so the occy. Adding the leg is often the difference between getting heaps and none and don't worry about the hook being both large and exposed, even tiny kings swallow the lot. When buying feathers for kings if you can't find all white, personally I find pulling the red or other colours out and only leaving the white works better most of the time. As for depth, when we were handlining them, we either used 4-6 oz (up to 170 gm) heads or trolled the lures about 6-7 ft behind a large barrel sinker (up to 200 gms) so that they were between 10-20 ft deep close to the boat. Calmer days deeper lures, rougher days closer to the surface. Most of the kings we handlined with this method were under 4-5 kg, but they could be caught really quickly by putting the boat in a really tight circle and always throwing to the inside of the moving vessel - no stopping the boat when doing it this way and you can get todays bag limits in a few minutes (provided they're big enough!) Further out at sea at places like the Peak off Sydney, the profesional handline trollers use a series of crimped on barrel sinkers to maintain their baits/lures about 10-15 metres under the surface and troll the same tight circle method once they encounter the fish, they then use the sinkers as 'grab points' when pulling in large Kings without stopping the boat. As for minnow style lures, slow trolling larger sizes (15-25 cm length body) works ok also, but interestingly the only colours I ever recommend are all fluoro orange(best kingfish colour by far in my opinion), all hot pink and all white- especially pearly white- note all these lures in their own SINGLE colours without marks of other colour. I know they don't resemble anything we see in the water, however the always inquisitive Kingfish will always check them out. Of course they take all sorts of lures and colours but these are the ones that have worked year after year, from both the boat and off the rocks. Interesting also is that both the pink and orange rarely produce any other fish besides Kings and large Tailor. There are lots of different ways to tempt Kings, the above are what has always worked for me. Cheers Waza

Hi kiwicraig Plano make a "line spool box" which holds 6 spools of leader/line. It is the best container for the purpose I've ever come across and I've had one for many years. There is a rubber 'button' with a small hole for the line to go through so you don't even have to open the box to pull out what you need. Just use a permanent marker to mark the strength above each hole. Saves mucking around looking for/untangling spools as all in one place. They're still on the market around $12. No doubt there are other versions on the Chinese market. Also have a small unknown brand circular one that has 3 tiny spools inside it and a line cutter on the side, which is my Luderick leader line version. Sorry can't show you as it's in Kennards storage with 95% of my tackle. Cheers Waza

Hi Neil it was generally regarded as ok to swim at Bondi unless there was a big N/easterly blowing which would blow the murk water in to the beach. If you stood up on the cliffs to the north or were in a boat travelling close in along the coast you could really see the 2 distinct coloured waters. You could travel along the visible line and see thousands of fish sitting just under and along this line- known as the "murk line"- on calm days, trolling small white "Firetails" and "Canada Jigs" you could usually catch as many fish as you wanted to- mostly Trevally that would dart out from under the "opaque" greeny edge and grab the small lures usually really close to the boat. Sometimes the schools were so enormous the fish were visible for more than a km, until the murk line dissipated

My apologies mrsswordfisherman I didn't mean to derail your important post, just found Zoran's comment funny and haven't heard the blindmullet term for many years.

Hi GoingFishing the 'mullet' referred to is actually an undissolved number 2 that has 'escaped' the 'filtering' at the treatment plant. Also known as "Bondi cigars" "King Browns" "Manly Surfers" etc. They were often observed "schooling-up" along Bondi beach during strong N/East winds and at Manly beach during strong S/Easter's. Not a good look for 2 of Australia's most famous beaches and definitely not something you wanted to encounter while in the water, more feared than a bluebottle....

Nice work Frank I reckon fishermen have got to be among the worlds best 'improvisers'

Hi Zoran when I was a kid they told me "blindmullet" was the best bait to you use at the murk, when I asked where you could get some they told me "it's local bait- you get it at the spot"- I had no idea and the older fisho's got a fair few laughs telling me how to put it on/rig up etc

Mate it is a genuine great idea! Remote control also! You should advertise these in seniors villages also- they'd be so handy for people trying to lug stuff around the garden too!

Hi Frank you should put them on the market and sell these! I bet a lot of people would buy them- not just for fishing either. Impressive paint work/decals also! Cheers Waza

Great idea re line twist though. Very interesting post

Thanks for sharing such fantastic photo's! Awesome!

Reading back over the post I'm not sure I answered your question well enough. If you meant how did he know what to make for where, he was also a Luderick fisherman with great experience and made float orders for many of the great Luderick fishermen of the East coast. As much of his stock came from making custom orders, he knew what those "in the know used and wanted, also where they were using them. He kept a written record of orders and styles and was very savvy with how water movement affected different spots, either from fishing them or custom building floats for those that had regular spots such as the Mattens. With fine tuning over years of supplying floats, he would explain why a particular style was the best option for particular locations and usually would say "this one;s your best bet for that spot". Happy to answer any other questions if this wasn't what you wanted to know! Regards Waza

Hi Derek spent ages on a really long reply but computer dropped out (wireless bb) and page auto rebooted- lost the whole thing grrrr! Anyway here's abridged version! As most locations have their own characteristics in regard to how the water moves around (or over) them, I think it best if I use various location examples to answer the question. Most of the locations have times when they are most likely to produce fish, many of these have been 'worked out' based on regular use. Once a spot becomes well known to the user, most genuine effort (expectation!) is based around this knowledge. I'll start with old favourite White Rock around the east side of Bradleys Head. This spot is about 4 metres deep and you fish in a narrow L shaped crack which is only about 4 x 2 metres in length and a bit over 1.2 metres wide. It is only affected by waves from passing vessels and there is only minimal drift. Fishing this spot requires a bit of specialised technique as you need to maneuver your bait down quickly between waving kelp arms without landing it on either side. As it's basically a 'still water' spot, a light float is used and weighted down to only about 1 cm above the water. After describing the location, water movement and depth, Alan made me a lighter version of a float commonly used off the harbour wharves called "Luna Park" ballasted towards the lower end of the stem and fished virtually completely submerged, bar about 1 cm. The difference with the 2 floats was the Luna Park held more than double the lead, which was necessary to sink the bait in the faster drift and equally limited space between 2 pylons at Luna Park wharf. From the ocean rocks, 'characteristics' generally come from the geographical features, including water run-off locales on different ledges, combined with food supply and general sea-to-land water movement. As the majority of oceanic Luderick pursuits revolve around lesser sized swells- due to fishing where the Luderick's food source grows- the 'green' wave swept areas- we know that in differing swell directions, there are places to go and places to avoid for safety reasons. For example Dobroyd Headland is generally regarded as 'safe' when the ocean swell is from the North or N/East and pretty much any westerly airflow, however a Southerly swell above 1 metre makes the spot dangerous as this whole location is best fished on the higher stages of the tide. So we've established the type of conditions when we're likely to go to Dobroyd- Nth swell on a rising tide. As swell isn't a big factor and water depth at the spot is less than 5 metres we know we'll be fishing between 2.7 to 3.7 metres deep. We also know that as there will be wash from ledges becoming wave-washed that there will be a degree of turbulence which points in the direction of higher ballasted floats- not as buoyant as oceanic rock floats but more buoyant and 'stable' than Luna Park style. A good float for this spot is the bottom left hand blue one in the picture, which is more streamlined than most of the others and purpose built for the spot- It's actually called "Dobroyd" and there are a few the same in the pic. Next examples are from 5 spots, all within 200 metres of each other at my old haunt the Mattens at Dover Heights Spot 1- A permanent wash known as Scarecrow on the southern end of "greeny" the most southerly extent of the spot. Only fishable on a falling tide and flat seas as the ledge is barely above waterline and drops into 8-9 metres of water. There is a large cunje bed here and boulder strewn bottom, as water is constantly falling back off the ledge, the wash is milky and foamy topped- genuine white water fishing. Due to constant turbulence and 'suck down' of the ocean, a more buoyant float is used in this spot- which is very much like a "typical" ocean Luderick wash, with 'soupy' water and natural burley going in. Because access to this spot is pretty much only available in flat conditions, when you fish it you know that broader, top ballasted floats are required to maintain stability in the rougher water. In the picture the diamond shaped light blue one in the top-center and the all black 3rd from top left are good examples of floats made for this wash. Spot 2- Greeny- as name suggests another wave swept cabbage covered ledge. Greeny has a small water run-off depression in the center falling into 8-10 metres of depth and far less turbulence than previous spot. This means the use of a slightly more aerodynamic shape can be used examples are the top right hand black one and the black tipped green one next to it. These are probably best known as "conventional" floats and are probably the most used throughout the Luderick 'community'. Spot 3- "front boulder" 10-12 metres deep with a boulder the size of a shipping container submerged about 5 metres down and 15 metres out from the edge. The boulder formed an eddy towards shore and the fish bite there in a different manner. The float will go down about 1-1.3 metres, and stops, then usually comes back up towards the surface, only to go down again. Any striking from the angler results in either lip hooked and lost fish or no hook-up at all. Technique here is to wait for secondary downward movement, which happens after the initial rising of the float from first down movement. A specialised float was used here (and other spots) for this exact type of bite- the 2 floats in the center of the picture with the "upside down" or teardrop ballast are used here as they are slower in coming back up, which gives the fish that extra few seconds to re-take the bait. These were my favourites and the first ones I ran out of from about a dozen I had. Made a few myself but nowhere near the same quality. Spot 4- the"front"(actually faces S/East 15+ metres deep, only minimal wash with hardly any natural features or burley going in, yet the number one spot for big catches and giant sized fish. Here a lighter "conventional' shape is used, with a minimal amount of lead, even though fishing depth is around 3.5-4 metres deep. The striped tipped smaller floats were made for this spot as often the fish would be up to 50-60 metres out when you started fishing and float harder to observe when out that far. Striking a down was often done by moving backwards a few metres to gather slack line before lifting the rod. Spot 5- The "lake" a shallow open ended tidal lagoon roughly 2 metres deep at it's entrance and 50 cm deep at the other end. White topped and foamy from incoming wave break at the entrance- this place "filled up" with fish on the higher stages of the incoming tide. As it is shallow with plenty of water movement, shorter yet buoyant floats are used. Examples are the bottom row in the picture. The shallow end was fished with really small bobby corks set about 45 cm deep- sorry no photos of them yet. As for materials, for the ocean floats, cork bodies, cane stems and either dowel or sugar pine tops. Estuary and river floats have cork, balsa or cedar bodies. Colours varied due to location/conditions- example blue or green bodies for murky (and "the" murk) water, black for clearer water. Black tips for looking towards the sun. I've had fun trying different colour schemes on my own home made floats, as you're often watching them pretty much submerged, in varying light and at a reasonable distance.

Hi Zoran that was both fascinating and tragic! Thanks for putting it on I really enjoyed it. Cheers Waza