wazatherfisherman

Rabbit pellets are also ok for attracting Pigs, Tarwhine and Bream

G'day mate basically there are two 'main' methods of fishing for Black Drummer (Rock Blackfish) 1st method is mainline tied to swivel, 60 cm leader, running ball sinker(size 0,01 or 1)straight onto hook- 2/0 double strength suicide('octopus')- best (and probably cheapest) hook is Mustad 92554. You can use same rig without lead also. Prawns, crabs, cunje, white bread commonly used baits. Method is either 'float' bait down deep edges or in turbulent wash zones, they generally pick up before the bottom and run off with bait pretty similar to large Bream. Don't give them too much line when taking bait, usually 1-1.5 metres is enough, much more and they're 'in motion' towards obstacles or the bottom. Method 2 is small running bobby cork above the same rig, variation you can use is sinker sitting above swivel instead of right on hook. This method is good for really snaggy bottom, areas with a lot of big rocks in the water and places like Burning Palms (The "Tablet"- gutter on south side) where there are seemingly 'millions' of rock cod (kelpies) that compete for the bait. If using crabs, particularly red crabs(their and Groper's favourite) cut all legs off crab-don't pull as you pull meat off with leg- lift top of crab off with knife from back towards front, then cut crab body either in half or quarters if large crab. Take one of cut legs and insert hook, pull hook through and off hook onto line. Next insert hook through body section leg hole and through meat, then pull leg back onto hook shank. Gives you either 2 or 4 baits per crab instead of one and releases "scent" from crab meat. Red crabs, also known as "Red Bait Crab" by fisheries are Best bait for Bream off the rocks, especially during daylight hours. Pigs(Drummer) Leatherjacket and Groper(use whole, just remove either one or two legs for hook insertion) all love them. Whole crab a little less vulnerable to pickers, but as bag limit is only 10, halving or quartering gives far more baits. Use white bread for burley (it's also good bait for them) and better still use Chicken "Layer Pellets" to really get them interested. Soak pellets in a bucket until they dissolve and keep a small constant trail going- the fish often end up swimming around in sight. If using prawns, peel them (cooked or fresh) if using cunje, cut cunje straight down from top to bottom going all around with knife and try to keep entire 'pod' intact, the real big ones love a whole intact pod. First hook entry point is through the 'tits' at the top. Any more info just let me know. Cheers Waza

Great reports from Craig and Anthony, a fun time and a feed to boot! Never get sick of eating those tasty Flatties. Sometimes braid eaten by those blasted jackets, if you get a 'micron' of bait/juice on your line it's fair game for them, even up high in the water column. On the bleeding, did you try the old remedy of rubbing the Flathead's belly slime on your wounds? Belly slime works for a lot of other species also. I'm on Warfarin blood thinner for life now after 2 pulmonary embolisms and I bleed pretty easily, so knowing different ways to help bleeding stop is vital. Hope you heal quickly! Cheers Waza

Noticed they weren't using rod buckets!

Pig rock, like "suicide" the next long rock in the water, was only fishable when really flat. AVERAGE Pig there was 4-5 kg and if you burleyed with chook pellets they'd be swimming around in sight. 9 out of 10 would "destroy" you there even though it was over 40 ft deep. Shallow end of lake fished from the back high rock(of main rock) about 18 inches deep with bobby cork and "fingernail" sized bait was sensational fishing- even better than deeper main lake. I hated just trying to get on/off the ladder at Rosa- couldn't reach the hand hold so used to take a metre looped rope to 'lasso' back peg. Macquarie lighthouse was by far hairiest climb even though longest down bit was only about 40 ft. The "Block" at eastern ave had the most frightening fixed ladder. After watching an old black and white fishing club home movie of a club outing to Yellow Rock I went there with a few of the guys- we took a long look and decided it was a death trap. Went to the "Trap" instead, also pretty dodgy but at least no climbing involved and a way out of the water, albeit dicey

I agree Tuna can be caught deep, but only ever hooked 1 that way as opposed to hundreds of kingy's and the thread is/was about Kingfish set up. Anyway, glad you caught some, also that you're only trying to help another Raider and I didn't really suggest an alternative in the price range just had to back PaddyT up as a successful Alvey user! I agree this has gone off track. Happy fishing

Thanks Jim, I have countless stories from those days, of fish and fishermen. rescues, fun and hardship on the rocks, not to mention plenty of tips from the "old ways" -I know you know how good the fishing was in those days! Some of the catches of fish taken there in comps were just unbelievable by today's standards. A shame for all the young/new fishers. The "kero-dip" became popular during the depression, when those that were catching heaps of fish "traded" them for other groceries. Kept families in food during those tough times. Aniseed was another popular additive. The last couple of times I went to the Mattens was in the boat on a flat day

Yes they are, you can find Luderick all along Sydney coast, wherever there is plentiful cabbage growth you will find them at some stage of the tide. If you're new to the Blackfish game, a good area to explore is known as "The Gutters" which is found by parking above Fairy Bower at Manly in Bower St. There is a ravine that goes down to the rocks ,it's the only way down but fairly easy to negotiate- the first major platform to the south of the ravine is known as "Little Bluefish or Little Bluey" which is an ok Luderick spot, however if you keep walking south you'll come to the "Gutters"- takes about 20 mins to walk around- if you look on google maps you'll see "old quarry swamp"- the first gutter lies just below and can be clearly seen. The second gutter is also visible, gutter 3 is right up in the corner and isn't an actual gutter, more of a boulder ridden area. There are usually plenty of fish in one, sometimes all of these spots. Best cabbage('streamers') is often found on the southern side of gutter 2, but don't fish that side, fish the northern side about 3-4 metres deep. The visible drop off out off left hand side also produces some good ones. Make sure you have rock plates and safety gear. When the Bluefish car park was still accessible we used to go through the treatment works fence and walk down the lower rd and straight over the side, it was really steep but you ended up in the corner above gutter 3. If you fish gutter 2 you can use a landing net comfortably as an alternative to washing them out. Worthwhile having a few casts with a big minnow lure between 2 and 3 for Tailor if there early morning also. Good luck if you go Cheers Waza

Cossie we used to stay in the 'cave' high above "greenie" where the rope up to "magpie" was as it was the only place that was comfortable to both sit and lie down. I could put a story on here every night for a year about adventures at the Mattens! Did one 3 night trip and a few 2 nighters. October for Mulloway and giant Pigs, November was giant Luderick, big Kingy's were a possibility any day. Fishing the back(shallow end) of the lake was the hottest Luderick fishing you could ever find. Did you ever try fishing at "Pig Rock" about 40 metres north of the entrance to the lake- in front of the "swimming pool"?

Thanks Masterfisho there is nowhere like the Mattens, sadly though, it claimed many lives. The murk always had the same effect on our fishing and I understand why the murk was so popular also

Hi Jim I only went there a few times to see what it was all about. After some of the customers in the tackle shop kept telling me of 5 and 6lb Luderick I had to see that! Saw some amazing fish caught. First time there I saw a bloke catch a Luderick that was easily over 5lb, followed by 2 more only marginally smaller- the bait- Bullocks liver dipped in kero! I asked him how often he caught them that big and he said "plenty times like this". He was actually fishing for Pigs with heavy line and the liver, casting right into "Burger Bill's"- the boily bit.

Cossie you're a legend for finding this. Yes that sure is the Mattens. My only concern with it is that it doesn't show how dangerous getting down there really is. The footage from the bottom looking back up where all the ropes are, is taken from about 40-50 metres out from the cliff wall, making it look not vertical and relatively simple to get down. It isn't. The last 40 metres down the wall has only 3 cut foot-holes which are 6cm, 4cm and 4cm deep, only allowing toes to go in, and one is at the top overhang (35 metres up) which goes under almost a metre. This was the "moment of truth" going back up as you were hanging out backwards and one slip anywhere on the 'top' section means certain death. I want ANYONE EVEN CONSIDERING GOING THERE TO RECONSIDER as ALL the guys that fished there had accidents and near death experiences- that is the lucky ones. There were many who fell and died. ONLY ONE faller survived and I had an arm around him holding him to the cliff wall 30 seconds before he fell. He fell from the last 15 metres above the bottom when we were climbing down around midnight. He simply ran out of arm strength and he was on a 'flat' section with nowhere to put a foot on to attempt any rest. As a young bloke, having to work out how to put a "blow-up" suit on a mate lying barely conscious at the base of a dark cliff was dreadful, especially as it was lowered with instructions written with clay and a stick on the side of a canvas haversack. The police rescue squad aided by about 100 others on the cliff-stretcher-rope took close to 4 hours that night to effect the rescue and Mark R was finally up in the ambulance about 4.30 am. Not to mention ropes breaking, ropes cut-yes cut while we were down there(rescue squad had to get us out twice in a month as the ropes had been cut while we were down), stones being thrown(we caught 3 teenagers who'd been keeping us 'pinned' under the cliff on several occasions), rope tie-off pegs/posts breaking, rock-falls and landslides. If it rained a waterfall of clay mud streamed straight into your face and down your arms from the saturated ropes. Sandstone erodes continually also. My brother only came down once and was so terrified that we had to call the helicopter to get him back up- in fairness to him, a great many who wanted to come got as far as the big rope climb and said "no way, you guys really are mad, it's only fishing"- each to his own, most people are afraid of something and it was a sensible call by anyone who wasn't keen to do the cliff. I had plenty of mates who caught plenty of fish in other spots. Haven't even mentioned the usual rock fishing danger of the sea. One of the spots at the bottom was called "suicide". I won't say any more other than it was the least fished. I copped a hairline skull fracture and concussion at another "safe" spot down there. I finally stopped going down after two incidents on the same day- first a Blue tongue lizard fell/ was thrown from the very top, landing between me and mate Ross D walking in single file. 1 second either way would have hit one of us. Would have been like being hit with a brick as it splattered over a few metres. Second was a pigeon that flew out of a crack in the cliff on the rope climb, flew between me and the cliff face, I was so startled I spun around, leaving me backwards on the cliff. Had to "rope-burn-slide" about 5 metres to where I could turn back around. Still had to climb up with the"burned off" skin, same as with skull and concussion. Lucky the initial stages of the climb are "invisible" from the top and you climb down more than half a km away from what can be seen, so PLEASE take my advice FISHRAIDERS and go somewhere else, as like I said EVERY Mattens fisher had accidents, such is the nature of the spot. Some of the footage in the second video is of Bondi Murk not the Mattens

Hi Jeffb5.8 looking at the picture of the back of the reels, top left one appears to be Alvey 45A1, then looks like Ebro 'Midget',- might be wrong though as my midget had only 1 handle, fourth one Alvey 35A1 or 375A1- these are the better ones but fairly common in the used marketplace, third one looks like a Capstan or Austiplas- about 18 months ago I sold 1 of each of these on ebay when down-sizing collection before a house move, didn't get much response(or dollars!) for them, the timber reel with the brass cross shaped frame(called a starback) would be the oldest and would clean up nicely making a worthy centerpiece for a display, other 2 look like either Steelite or Alpha in Bakelite. All of these reels are part of our fishing heritage, so keep them and make a nice display! The Jarvis Walker rods have a place in most older fishermen's hearts, as many people had them(and still have them) as their first good quality fishing rod. Plenty of guys collect them, but due to their popularity amongst fishermen, a large number were produced, many for the type of fishing endemic to the area they were named after. They are virtually unbreakable and will outlast most of us that own them! Not sure on the pistol grip rod, but looking at the reel seat could be Slazenger, Southbend, Butterworth or even an early Daiwa(Whitehall). All the Blackfish floats would work just as well as any made today and would be nice incorporated in the display. My advice would be keep everything and go ahead with your display, keeping it an heirloom and interesting 'talking-piece' Thanks for showing us all. Cheers Waza

Great read Derek and congrats on some nice fish! The 1m plus is due any time now!

G'day I haven't fished there for a few years but have fished there plenty of times from both the shore and in boat. The main species encountered there are Whiting(of course!) and Bream, with Bream actually more common than the Whiting. Best rig is enough sinker to get out 30-40 metres sitting above a really small bead(to stop sinker 'wedging' on swivel/knot,) then swivel and about 40-50 cm of light line around 3-4 kg for a leader(fluorocarbon will get you more bites re visibility even in dark) then a size 2 or 4 hook- 'bait-holder' type with small barbs on hook shank will work best with either worms or prawns as best bait giving you a chance at both those species. There are occasional Flathead and Tailor. Small Red Bream are a nuisance in the summer months. Alternative rig if using pilchards as bait(not for Whiting) is swivel,then pea size or next size larger/smaller running straight onto hook. For this rig use suicide(octopus) pattern 1/0-2/0 and back 1/3-1/4 of pilchard best and easiest to rig. Good tide to go there best of luck, hope to see some fishy pictures. Cheers Waza

Nice feed there well done. Great to see the jackets and Luderick are still there. One of my first Luderick areas when I was a young bloke. As a matter of interest the different spots were called "the reef" -out front, then as you go into the bay on eastern side "bung rock" the rock in the water, "the shoe" horseshoe shaped rock, then the really long one was "floaties" which used to be the best 'jacket spot at the southern end of the rock

Do you guys get eye strain from looking at these iso corks? I used to fish a rock spot that had a "lake" that the Luderick would come into from about half tide up. On big tides you fished the shallow end about 45 cm deep so you had to use cork not float- couldn't see it 75% of the time

VERY good advice Roger the westerly 'rollback' ALWAYS comes and sometimes within a couple of hours, the swells aren't just high, they're usually huge in width and the whole ocean 'lifts' Be careful anyone going in these conditions- I've seen several fatalities and been powerless to help

No disadvantage! Different method of fishing, in all the years only ever saw a few Kingfish taken fishing live bait less than about 10 foot deep and that was at Kiama Blowhole, JB and Avoca. Where we fished in Sydney 20-30 foot deep was the norm. Often when rock fishing you see Kingfish cruise by or pop out from the edge pretty much on the surface, often following a hooked fish or lure, sometimes they take, sometimes not. Fishing deep they took more often, not unlike why boats use downriggers when trolling for Kingfish rather than just towing un-weighted. Since the now common usage of 'riggers' started Kingfish catches have increased substantially for those that have switched to them. Not just a coincidence!

Sounds like nice day out to me- 7 Rods- you can never have too much fishing gear! If anyone complains just tell them golfers carry more clubs

Have to admit to putting the rod in the holder heaps of times, but as I always stood right next to- and I mean next to it- catching Blackies and we fished the deep method. I've always reckoned a great "fisherman's alarm clock" would have the sound of an Alvey ratchet screaming off- you'd be out'a bed in a split second!

Just wanted to relate a conversation I had with Bruce Alvey last year when it was announced that Alvey was unfortunately going to have to close down after 97 years in business. I don't know him personally, but he was both very friendly and quite happy to talk of the impending closure, even though it was a traumatic time for both himself and the business. The cost of electricity was a major factor. Also, sadly more and more younger fishers were opting for high-end threadlines instead, many lured by the mass media of things like GT popping, giant Yellowfin on lures from the stones, Drone fishing, slide-baiting and so on. Braid also was part of the 'problem' as spreading line(with fingers) became a safety issue. and many have switched to the advantages of using these new super-lines. Also, as the reels were built to last(and do) anyone buying one could still be using it in 50+ years time. They were so well made they've been handed down from father to son (grandfather to in heaps of cases!) making the initial purchase of an Alvey a 'lifetime' buy. There is virtually nothing that goes wrong with them, even when dropped in the ocean or filled with sand, a quick dunk in the surf, a shake and you're back in business- 5 mins washing and re- lubing and you could leave it in the garage for months and nothing would be corroded. Consider what would happen to any other style of reel under those conditions. Great for fishers, lousy for reel sales. There was a buying "frenzy" on ebay and 2nd hand reel prices rose nearly 100%. Bruce went on to say that he believed also that many fishers weren't developing the same 'skill-levels' as a result of superlines, super drag systems, etc. The skill of judgement of line strength, the ability to control a fish by means of 'palming' the spool on plain series reels (centerpin reels also fall into the category) and the general 'feel' for your outfit were changing with all the advancements in technology. Not saying that there isn't a different skill-level altogether in learning to use all the new gear, there certainly is. As testament to the legion of Alvey users out there, the company was going to sponsor several Alvey only competitions, where only the "A" series of plain non star drag reels would be permitted. They had hoped to showcase the resulting captures from that type of tournament. Thankfully for we fishers, due to an overwhelming panic driven demand, with ongoing orders, they have managed to stay open at least for the mean time. The ebay 'frenzy' has subsided somewhat. Who'd have thought that by making a product so well, could be bad for business? Raiders, try a plain Alvey, one will last you forever!- Note- I have absolutely no affiliation with the company, just love the reels!

Ah PaddyT now I'm travelling down memory lane, I have Snyder FT70-120,FSU 5120 and MT 9120 still, a couple of speedmasters with the updated washers and speedmaster 6-1 o/h. Can't climb the cliffs any more but same, couldn't part with it- too many memories. Hoping that when I move to Murwillumbah in a few months can still use from walls like Fingal, Wooli. Treasure my 651E5 Alvey and MT mega 9 wrap- easily lifted Kings up to about 25 lb- been offered big dollars for them but could never sell them either

As PaddyT said it is far easier to use/ learn to use an Alvey than something like a Newell- Good score at the markets on that and the Abu 9000C bargain price for good old reels and well spotted- As for not knowing re Tuna, the thread originally was about a Kingfish outfit, however with the Kings, the deep, close-in method provided the majority of them(and Jew) Tuna were sought using different technique- shallower for a start. Leaving rod in rod holder was what everyone did and we caught Luderick while waiting for a run unless 'murk' was in or fish 'there', then stayed 'on rod'- too heavy as you say to hang onto all day. Rod holders were about 3 inch gal pipe welded to 1/2 inch solid rod roughly 3 foot long. Not problematic to leave- no overrun with a 'left Alvey' danger danger leaving o/head, one overrun and in it goes. Saw rods snapped at butt couple of times at Avoca- $4-500 outfit gone. To counter that they started making custom hardwood butts with s/steel pin through centre. Not criticising your ideas/opinions just letting you know there were/are plenty of Alvey live baiters who caught tons of good fish. You have Alvey's, why don't you give them another go just for Kings? The excitement of fighting a good sized fish on that gear(especially the no-drag "A" series) is something you won't forget

Just wanted to add that the 600A5's are tough enough for anything, just smaller in size and particularly line capacity, but balance up well with 9-10 foot rods. If Kingfish are the primary target from the rocks, the 650 size is probably the best choice, although I used a 700A5 plain for a couple of years, no complaints with it, just found the E5 series the best of all.