Drownings at Port Kembla

[noelm]

 Posted about the spot earlier on, the issue is the "step" behind you, on the right hand end in that footage (western end) the bottom step is quite narrow, the swell comes up that gutter and covers the platform, but has nowhere to go because of the step behind, it builds up, changes direction and washes straight out to sea, taking gear and people with it. The group in that video were very lucky, a bit more tide, and they would all be washed in. I have fished there, dived there for decades, and seen plenty go in, it looks like a great spot, nice and flat, easy to get to, and deepish water right over the edge (which also adds to the danger), even located a body there once back in about 1980, another fisherman that was washed off. There is signs all over the place, in every language,  but it makes no difference does it?

[mrsswordfisherman]

48 minutes ago, HenryNSW said:

here is the news footage of when my bags and rod was swept in.  I was already up the steps from the first swell (you can see me in white wearing red life jacket far right holding white rod). this was the second swell about 5 seconds later.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/group-knocked-over-by-waves-one-day-after-fishermen-deaths-video/news-story/3db75889dc4d748de1764004aeca47d3

To be honest the news article is misleading because they say 'idiots' implying that we were involved in some idiotic behaviour when infact everyone was wearing life jacket and cleats and we did check the swell for the day as well, but we're not aware of the exact nature of the danger for that site.   Telling people to be 'safe' in too ambiguous a term to properly educate people on exactly what they need to be careful about. 

 

can someone do a location report for this spot, and to be honest I think it would be good to have more signs warning people...  because on my way walking up to the platform I did see any signs all I saw was 1 angel ring(life buoy). 

There is a link to a 2011 fishing report here on fishraider in that news article. Did any raider talk to a reporter and point them to that report? 

[HenryNSW]

30 minutes ago, noelm said:

  There is signs all over the place, in every language,  but it makes no difference does it?

hmmmm have to admit that the only sign that I spotted while walking down from the car park was saying that [Only collect up to 3 shell fish] from the area.  

would be good to put up a big sign maybe right on the platform warning of 'rogue' waves. 

There were also kids there walking on the platform as well.  technically they were not fishing but nevertheless they had life jackets on, but would have been better to make it obvious to people that it is a high risk rouge wave area

 

and I was looking at a lot of forums and comments that just said people fishing there are idiots that didn't look at the conditions.  but what most people don't realise is that the condition was deceptively calm, so it is not an issue of people fishing in rough sea/big wind condition, but people not aware of rogue wave condition

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by HenryNSW

[Tunastrike11]

On 1/23/2021 at 9:09 AM, SquibblyDibbly said:

Hey Raiders,

Sad news today that 3 men have drowned after being washed off rocks whilst fishing at Port Kembla.

I was just watching the police give a press conference and the information they shared ticked me off a bit. They blamed a "rogue" wave and gave zero helpful information to help others avoid this happening.

We are seeing big swells with long swell periods in the area, great for surfers but perilous conditions to be on the rocks.

I love fishing the rocks, done safely it's hard to beat.

What I do before going is;

Check the swell forecast, size, direction and swell period;

  - You don't want to fish the rocks if the swell is hitting your fishing spot head on. In a southerly swell try and find rocks facing north.

   - Look out for long swell periods, the longer the swell period the more power the waves have and the more the sets are spaced out. Even small swell at a 10+ second period could easily be dangerous. With spaced out sets an area may look safe for a considerable amount of time and then a set comes through and what you thought was safe is life threatening.

Check the tide times and height;

   - Its handy to know if the tide is coming in our out while you'll be fishing. Some headland spots you might get trapped out there at a high tide.

   - Rocks where you are fishing into shallower water can become dangerous at low tide as the waves start breaking into the rocks. Other spots might become unsafe in a big high tide.

Take the time to observe the conditions when arriving and before you start fishing;

   - How are the waves coming in, how is a set coming in. Are you going to get a little wet or washed off. Look at what areas of the rocks are wet.

   - If you were to fall in, where would you get out? Would the swell conditions let you get out?

   - Do you have an escape? I do not fish those spots where if a bigger wave came rolling in youd struggle to scamper away to safe ground. 

Take the right gear;

   - Footwear, Cleats or wetsuit style booties with a grippy sole is a smart choice. Look out for slippery weed or slime. I'm sure plenty of us have experienced that black slime that is essentially like ice to walk on.

   - Life jacket, I don't do this but I'm being an idiot. Take a life jacket, particularly if you are not confident swimming in the ocean.

   - Burley pot and rope, it will greatly improve your rock fishing and doubles as a way to retrieve someone who has fallen in.

  - Take your phone so you can call for help, go with mates, bare minimum tell someone where you are going.

 

Does anyone else have any handy tips for the rocks?

yes dont rock fish at nighttime at hill60 with a decent swell running

[noelm]

There is no rogue waves involved, the swell comes over that platform with nearly every wave, the swell was big the other day, no one should have been down there at all, plus it faces due south, catches all the swell, but it doesn't matter, families are broken, and it won't stop, today, next week or next year, until they ban the location altogether then there will be an uproar.

Edited January 25, 2021 by noelm

[PaddyT]

Henry have a look at the geography of that spot-low ledge -with no way out when a swell lips over the top- you learn to read these things as you get experienced-swell looks calm until its over the platform, wind waves hold very little danger to the rockfisho-there are very few low ledges that are safe when the swell is over 1.5M average. What i saw was no rogue wave as Noel said-but all you lost was some gear-the guys from a week ago were not so lucky-learn to go home when you arrive and its too rough-fish another day, ive done that dozens of times.

[noelm]

I guess to be fair, it's a bit of a funny spot, that ledge on the eastern end, is quite wide, waves come over and just flatten out, might get knee deep on a good day, but, the western end, where all the gear was stacked in that video, is narrow, but the same amount of water comes over it, what was knee deep on the eastern end (about 20m away) is way over your waist, and heading back out to sea with force, you don't stand a chance. But that said, there is plenty of places to fish there, but that one is so inviting, it's flat, low to the water and fairly deep right off the edge, and that's one of the problems, the swell comes in big and thick/low because of the depth, it doesn't "wall up" to give a warning, it just starts rising over the platform, big and green, as witnessed in the video, once it comes over the ledge, it's just a mass of turbulent water, running is fraught with danger too, because of small kind of ridges in the rocks, the rocks are clearly wet with recent waves in that video.

[PaddyT]

I guess all spots have quirks-thats why getting to know your ledge is damn important

[HenryNSW]

I think the issue is also education and messaging.

For swimming everyone knows not to swim in the rip. 

For rock fishing all I know is wear life jackets, cleats, and don't go fishing when the weather is rough or 'condition is bad'.....  which for me just sounds like don't go fishing if you see big wave and big wind.   

What is missing for beginners (as many members pointed out) is learning to read the location, know how swell impacts the location.... specifically where the water will flow once it comes over the top. 

My local fish store told me to watch a new spot for at least 10 min before starting to fish so I actually watched the spot for 10 min when we arrived while others were setting up so that's what made yesterday's event so surprising for me. 

[GoingFishing]

1 hour ago, HenryNSW said:

I think the issue is also education and messaging.

For swimming everyone knows not to swim in the rip. 

For rock fishing all I know is wear life jackets, cleats, and don't go fishing when the weather is rough or 'condition is bad'.....  which for me just sounds like don't go fishing if you see big wave and big wind.   

What is missing for beginners (as many members pointed out) is learning to read the location, know how swell impacts the location.... specifically where the water will flow once it comes over the top. 

My local fish store told me to watch a new spot for at least 10 min before starting to fish so I actually watched the spot for 10 min when we arrived while others were setting up so that's what made yesterday's event so surprising for me. 

Mate im glad you and your fishing friends are all safe. It could have turned out worse.

It seems as though you are doing your homework. Keep it up. Do some more reading about safety and dangers of rock fishing. There's also lots of good videos on youtube.

Your on the right track, stay safe, catch some fish!

[savit]

1 hour ago, HenryNSW said:

I think the issue is also education and messaging.

For swimming everyone knows not to swim in the rip. 

For rock fishing all I know is wear life jackets, cleats, and don't go fishing when the weather is rough or 'condition is bad'.....  which for me just sounds like don't go fishing if you see big wave and big wind.   

What is missing for beginners (as many members pointed out) is learning to read the location, know how swell impacts the location.... specifically where the water will flow once it comes over the top. 

My local fish store told me to watch a new spot for at least 10 min before starting to fish so I actually watched the spot for 10 min when we arrived while others were setting up so that's what made yesterday's event so surprising for me. 

Mate, maybe contact also our local Sydney fishing rock star Alex Bellissimo, and ask if he has and can share the video recording of one of his free Rock Fishing Safety seminars (or at least remembers if any council or other org did recording). The seminars were quite interesting and useful, Alex answered plenty of questions from people.  

[PaddyT]

1 hour ago, HenryNSW said:

I think the issue is also education and messaging.

For swimming everyone knows not to swim in the rip. 

For rock fishing all I know is wear life jackets, cleats, and don't go fishing when the weather is rough or 'condition is bad'.....  which for me just sounds like don't go fishing if you see big wave and big wind.   

What is missing for beginners (as many members pointed out) is learning to read the location, know how swell impacts the location.... specifically where the water will flow once it comes over the top. 

My local fish store told me to watch a new spot for at least 10 min before starting to fish so I actually watched the spot for 10 min when we arrived while others were setting up so that's what made yesterday's event so surprising for me. 

Henry-experience and caution will make you safer than a lifejacket-change cleats for "correct footwear"-again-forget wind look at swell height and direction and tide -and finally when i started rockfishing the general rule when arriving at a new spot was 45 minutes of watching-in fact there are lots of ledges ive fished over the years that i simply walked into without a rod just to see how they worked and figure out how sea conditions would effect them-research will save your life. getting back to footwear-cleats are great around Sydney on the sandstone ledges-on granite like the Nth Coast they will kill you deader than dead-dont think they are the be all and end all of rockfishing footwear.

[SquibblyDibbly]

And put your gear on the dry rocks if you dont want the ocean to take it.

I'm glad your alright Henry.

[noelm]

8 hours ago, PaddyT said:

Henry-experience and caution will make you safer than a lifejacket-change cleats for "correct footwear"-again-forget wind look at swell height and direction and tide -and finally when i started rockfishing the general rule when arriving at a new spot was 45 minutes of watching-in fact there are lots of ledges ive fished over the years that i simply walked into without a rod just to see how they worked and figure out how sea conditions would effect them-research will save your life. getting back to footwear-cleats are great around Sydney on the sandstone ledges-on granite like the Nth Coast they will kill you deader than dead-dont think they are the be all and end all of rockfishing footwear.

I think the last sentence here is paramount, cleats are not the be all to end all, as an example, there's a spot I fish reasonably regularly that an old pair of joggers (I prefer old sand shoes) are the best footwear, no cleats at all, you would "skate" into the water in minutes with cleats! Everyone has to learn, there is no intent to tell anyone not to fish off the rocks (well, none from me) but, it's a dangerous place to learn, and some lessons cost dearly, take small steps in your rock fishing career, be safe and think about what's going on, not just about a bag of fish. 

[noelm]

Just a tip for anyone thinking of fishing rocks today, the swell is quite big, and the "sets" are  quite well spaced, maybe 5-8mins between sets, and considerably larger than the in between waves, so have a good look before fishing your favourite spot.

[mrsswordfisherman]

10 hours ago, savit said:

Mate, maybe contact also our local Sydney fishing rock star Alex Bellissimo, and ask if he has and can share the video recording of one of his free Rock Fishing Safety seminars (or at least remembers if any council or other org did recording). The seminars were quite interesting and useful, Alex answered plenty of questions from people.  

Look up Rock Fishing videos on youtube. There are many free ones that are informative

[Rebel]

@HenryNSW You were lucky mate. I dont't know why people bother fishing when the big swells are up.It has been like this all week.

One of the biggest problems I have found over the years, people can't swim, yet they take the risks.

[Burger]

In my opinion 10 mins is a bare minimum to watch a ledge, especially one you’ve never fished before.

You need long enough to see the pattern of swells coming through and as others said, how they react to coming over a ledge.

My starting point is a question, is the ledge wet? If so, wait long enough to see why!

The swell that came over the ledge in the footage seemed significant and the wet ledge told me it wasn’t the first wave to go over it.

Also remember that as the tide changes, so will the amount of water coming over a ledge even if the swell stays the same. Which it might not, swell can easily change bigger, smaller or a different direction during a fishing session.

You need to be aware of how the ocean is behaving and possibly changing at all times, especially on low ledges.

I hope everyone stays safe and gets to go home to their families.

cheers,

stu.

[Koalaboi]

Hi,

With many years of rock fishing, surfing and surf life saving experience behind me I feel the most important factor in rock fishing safety is informed experience of the fisher:

a. Just being able to swim does not cut it for me, what you need to ask is can you safely surf in swell of more than 1 metre? (body surf, boogie board, surf board etc). Having knowledge of how waves break and how to negotiate their power is different to being able to swim a hundred metres or more in a pool. Each cubic metre of water weighs 1,000kg. Waves literally have many tons of power that can easily knock a person over.

b. It's been mentioned before in this thread but deserves repeating: the swell size and direction and period are very important factors to consider. Long period swells are much more powerful than short period swells. Any swell over one metre is likely to make many spots too dangerous to fish. Some spots are safer to fish depending on their exposure to different swell directions. All too often, drowning deaths where fishers have been washed in occur during swells that I would not even consider rock fishing as an option. For up to date information on swell size, direction and period have a look at https://www.mhl.nsw.gov.au/Station-SYDDOW

For the days in question for this thread, the wave height can be seen in this graph:

The wave period in this:

These two graphs show that last Friday and Saturday waves up to 7 metres with a period of 15 seconds were around. In short, a very large and powerful swell.

By contrast, yesterday's graphs show a much smaller swell with a period down to 5 seconds.

The period is a really important indicator as swell size out to sea is often higher than the swells that hit the coast, never the less, whilst a 7m swell at sea may not be 7m on the coast, it's still too big to consider rock fishing at most spots. Secondly, the period of 15 seconds is close to the top of the range: anything over 10 seconds means the swell has some power to it.

c. Tides: a rising tide will often see a small jump in the size and power of the waves hitting a rock platform. It also means that your spot is closer to sea level making you more exposed to the waves.

d. The spot you choose: What direction does it face? How will different direction swells affect safety? What happens to the water once it washes over a platform? Where does it drain to the sea? Does it gather momentum as it does so? What is your escape route both over the rock platform to get away from a wave or, if washed in, how do you swim to a safe place to exit the water?

e. Knowing your own limitations. Places I fished when I was in my twenties are not places I would consider now 40 years later, I am simply not as strong, fit or agile as I was then. Like bushwalking, the limitations of your group are determined by the member of your fishing party who is, for want of a better term, the weakest link.

There are lots of other things to consider: Fishing alone? Appropriate footwear which as stated before, can vary from place to place. 

For each spot that is wiped out by swell there will be other spots that can be fished safely if you get to know your area well. That may mean fishing in harbours, estuaries or protected bays. I think sometimes people decide they want to fish a particular place for some reason and they don't/won't entertain the idea of perhaps having a range of spots to go to depending on swell, wind and tide.

Stay safe,

KB

Edited January 26, 2021 by Koalaboi

[Killer]

On 1/25/2021 at 5:07 PM, noelm said:

  There is signs all over the place, in every language,  but it makes no difference does it?

I thought I was going to have to get my shoes and shirt off, along with a number of others at Cronulla last week to rescue this lot. The father took his three kids for a swim in the pool, where 1m waves were racing through. Walked past warning signs advising of strong currents, undertow and dangerous conditions. First wave took the little boy over the steps and tumbled him across the rock shelf. He popped out of the "life jacket" and fortunately the father managed to grab him from under the water. Next wave took the little girl over the side wall of the pool and same result. She was screaming and injured her arm as well as getting leg abrasions. Oldest girl got knocked over trying to grab the sister and prevent her being taken out by the backwash. She also went over and received abrasions. A family tragedy in the making and it all took about 30 seconds. Signs don't make any difference to to a lot of people.

[Burger]

Wow, just wow . . .

I have no words.

Lucky family right there.

[Killer]

Lucky!!??  I can think of a dozen more apt words, Burger

 

[Fab1]

4 hours ago, Killer said:

I thought I was going to have to get my shoes and shirt off, along with a number of others at Cronulla last week to rescue this lot. The father took his three kids for a swim in the pool, where 1m waves were racing through. Walked past warning signs advising of strong currents, undertow and dangerous conditions. First wave took the little boy over the steps and tumbled him across the rock shelf. He popped out of the "life jacket" and fortunately the father managed to grab him from under the water. Next wave took the little girl over the side wall of the pool and same result. She was screaming and injured her arm as well as getting leg abrasions. Oldest girl got knocked over trying to grab the sister and prevent her being taken out by the backwash. She also went over and received abrasions. A family tragedy in the making and it all took about 30 seconds. Signs don't make any difference to to a lot of people.

Good on you for watching out for them.Be careful taking photos of other people's kids with the way this country is going.Keep up the good work mate.

[Killer]

Thanks Fab.  Just for your info -

As a general rule, taking photos of people and places in a public area does not require permission.

We have no right to individual privacy in Australian law – this probably comes as a surprise to a lot of readers, but there you have it.

Photographers, generally speaking, can freely photograph everyday situations, people and places, as long as they aren't breaking any other laws (such as trespassing).

More information can be found on Australia's Arts Law webpages. All came to a head when rangers tried to stop Ken Duncan taking photos around Barangaroo.

However, the intent of my post wasn't to highlight the guys kids, but to point out that regardless of warning signs, people pay no attention, nor have any common sense whatever in many dangerous situations. Sorry if I have somewhat hijacked your thread, Henry.

[Rebel]

@HenryNSW You were lucky mate. I dont't know why people bother fishing when the big swells are up.It has been like this all week.

One of the biggest problems I have found over the years, people can't swim, yet they take the risks.