Drownings at Port Kembla

[Rebel]

Right on @Killer. Well said.

[Burger]

3 hours ago, Killer said:

Lucky!!??  I can think of a dozen more apt words, Burger

 

So did I Killer, so did I  🙂 

Where's the *shakes head in astonishment* icon . . . 

There was a kid in the surf at Coogee yesterday in something similar to one of those things . . . I was thinking to myself, I hope that kid can swim.

Cos he'd have had the shock of his life if he was dumped out of the inflatable 'life ring' . . . . before his dad gets to him and finds him.

[GoingFishing]

This is an interesting topic.

Swimming at the beach is engrained in the Aussie upbringing. Most aussies visit the beach from when they are only a few years old. We grow up loving the beach. 

Therefore, the risks associated with the ocean, at face value, to us seem like "common sense".

It is very well known that most of the drownings on rock ledges are foreigners.

These fisherman often do not have the same exposure to the ocean and thus have never been exposed to the risks. 

Its like packing your bags and moving to Mexico only to get stung by a scorpion walking to the grocery store on your first day. And then the locals point and laugh and say your stupid.

My point is...... these fishos are not ignorant or stupid. Its just a matter of exposure and experience.

I guess that doesnt really help the situation. But i think sometimes we forget how lucky we are as aussies to grow up by the ocean. Its not a luxury everyone has.

[PaddyT]

3 minutes ago, GoingFishing said:

This is an interesting topic.

Swimming at the beach is engrained in the Aussie upbringing. Most aussies visit the beach from when they are only a few years old. We grow up loving the beach. 

Therefore, the risks associated with the ocean, at face value, to us seem like "common sense".

It is very well known that most of the drownings on rock ledges are foreigners.

These fisherman often do not have the same exposure to the ocean and thus have never been exposed to the risks. 

Its like packing your bags and moving to Mexico only to get stung by a scorpion walking to the grocery store on your first day. And then the locals point and laugh and say your stupid.

My point is...... these fishos are not ignorant or stupid. Its just a matter of exposure and experience.

I guess that doesnt really help the situation. But i think sometimes we forget how lucky we are as aussies to grow up by the ocean. Its not a luxury everyone has.

True to a point- the number of rescues made at beaches every year on patrolled beaches is staggering (over 10000 a year) -imagine what the drowning toll would be without lifeguards , the vast majority are Aussies. As ive said before i owned my own swim school for 15 years and am running a major aquatic facility in Brisbane at the moment -in general people think they can swim but their idea of swimming is a bit different to mine. The Swimming Australia guidelines clearly state that you should not pull your children out of lessons or swimming activities until they can swim 400 M without stopping using recognised strokes in calm water- its fair enough too-it translates well to being able to cope long enough with a high energy situation like the surf to get your self out of trouble . I reckon very few adults can swim 200M without running out of puff-also after way too many years of being at school carnivals -the general level of aquatic competence of kids is far below what it was when my kids were young. Qld is a bit better than NSW (most likely because the climate is a more suited to swimming) and this shows in National Age competition (2 out of 3 of my kids were NSW Champions and both of them won medals at National competition and one of them is having a crack at the Olympics in a comeback that i think he's left a bit late). I just think more and more people live in a state of altered reality-disconnected by screentime and dont really have an understanding of the consequences of their actions.

[Rebel]

I grew up at the beach ( Tamarama ) but adding to that every school I attended had swimming all year round. It was just a way of life in Australia.

Cheers

[Jiggy]

On 1/25/2021 at 10:31 PM, PaddyT said:

Henry-experience and caution will make you safer than a lifejacket-change cleats for "correct footwear"-again-forget wind look at swell height and direction and tide -and finally when i started rockfishing the general rule when arriving at a new spot was 45 minutes of watching-in fact there are lots of ledges ive fished over the years that i simply walked into without a rod just to see how they worked and figure out how sea conditions would effect them-research will save your life. getting back to footwear-cleats are great around Sydney on the sandstone ledges-on granite like the Nth Coast they will kill you deader than dead-dont think they are the be all and end all of rockfishing footwear.

Yes watching where you want to fish for a minimum of 30 minutes is absolutely critical. Doesn't matter what the forecast is your eyes are a better tool. One of  my favourite blackfish spots was the island at Stanwell Park. It actually fished best on a slight southerly swell but anything more than half a meter would kill you. Many a time I've walked back without climbing to it as I just didn't like the looks of it.

[zmk1962]

5 minutes ago, Jiggy said:

Yes watching where you want to fish for a minimum of 30 minutes is absolutely critical.

Rock fishing in my younger days, the first thing I packed was a thermos of coffee. We sipped many a cup watching "our spot"  and often that's as far as the days fishing went - a good cuppa watching the surf and sunrise - but we lived to fish another day. Cheers Zoran

[mrsswordfisherman]

3 hours ago, Rebel said:

I grew up at the beach ( Tamarama ) but adding to that every school I attended had swimming all year round. It was just a way of life in Australia.

Cheers

Oh I grew up in Coogee. Went to Tamarama, Cloee, Bronte, Bondi often!  
We all had swimming lessons at Wylie’s Baths.

[Yowie]

Some people of Lebanese background (and I suspect other non-English speaking nationalities) were taught by their parents never to go in or near the water, because it can be dangerous, and they were never taught to swim.

Just keep away from water. Due to that, they have no idea of the power of ocean waves, or the currents in inland rivers.

[zmk1962]

7 minutes ago, Yowie said:

Some people of Lebanese background (and I suspect other non-English speaking nationalities) were taught by their parents never to go in or near the water, because it can be dangerous, and they were never taught to swim

🤣  By that statement you'd conclude that English speaking nationalities just know how to swim and never drown .... BAHAHA.  Hmmm, I can think of several non-English speaking people and teams eg waterpolo that have dominated world championships. 

BUT I do take the point that PARENTS play a huge role in teaching kids water safety. My kids were water safe from 2yrs.

I recall being in NY on business - an english speaking part of the world. Maria and our two girls (2 and 6 at the time) accompanied me there. It was November and Maria took them to the hotel indoor pool. While she was setting out the towels she turned her back on the pool, at the same time the girls ran and jumped straight in .. only to be rescued by the other patrons who angrily  started to scold Maria for taking her eyes off the kids - BAHAHA. 

They became the talk of the Hotel - those crazy Oz kids - that could swim !  

Cheers Zoran

 

[Burger]

Lots of our childhood was spent at my grandmothers at Fairlight and swimming/bodysurfing at Manly. Learnt at a fairly young age how to swim and be in the ocean.

Agree that parents lead the way with learning ocean safety.

My sons both have some surf knowledge, though not as much as I got taught.

[Jiggy]

3 hours ago, Yowie said:

Some people of Lebanese background (and I suspect other non-English speaking nationalities) were taught by their parents never to go in or near the water, because it can be dangerous, and they were never taught to swim.

Just keep away from water. Due to that, they have no idea of the power of ocean waves, or the currents in inland rivers.

Not always true but it is in my case. Parents were Italian from the northern mountains and the first time they saw the ocean was on the boat to here. Going in the water was just not on. I didn't learn to swim until I was almost 8 and I had to convince them that it was important that I learned. It would have been different if they had lived on a coastal area but being from a mountanous region being able to swim just didn't register.

[Yowie]

3 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

🤣  By that statement you'd conclude that English speaking nationalities just know how to swim and never drown .... BAHAHA.  Hmmm, I can think of several non-English speaking people and teams eg waterpolo that have dominated world championships. 

 

Cheers Zoran

 

I am limited as to what I can publish in writing as to variables in regards to the differences in language, skin, religion, country of birth, nationality. I can explain it better in person.  😁

[Yowie]

5 minutes ago, Jiggy said:

Not always true but it is in my case. 

I based my comments on my son-in-law (Lebanese), his family, relos and friends from various parts of Sydney. Keep out of the ocean!

[Rebel]

@mrsswordfishermanDonna,

 

So you were a Coogee girl. I surfed at Tamarama & Bondi.

Did you ever go to the Bronte Stomp at the Bronte Surf Club on Sunday Nights.

Home of the Delltones and others before they were discovered.

The good old days.

Cheers.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Rebel

[Fox Bite]

On 1/27/2021 at 1:37 PM, Killer said:

However, the intent of my post wasn't to highlight the guys kids, but to point out that regardless of warning signs, people pay no attention, nor have any common sense whatever in many dangerous situations.

Exactly.

And we are talking about the place that remains in news headlines year after year. Here is citation from usual Illawarra Mercury article from randomly taken year (2013 in this instance):

”Deputy State Coroner Mark Buscombe recommended the Department of Primary Industries consider making lifesaving devices compulsory for rock fishermen.

The department funds the installation of angel rings at key rock fishing sites including Port Kembla, educational workshops and safety DVDs in Korean, Chinese and Vietnamese.”

Not sure if all those plates on the rock walls with names of the deceased on all languages still remain there...

But hey, people are going these just a couple days after mass drowning, getting into the same kind of trouble, then feel offended by very reasonable comments about their cognitive abilities and proceed with blaming everyone and everything but themselves for what has happened. On the other hand, there is nothing new about this...

[mrsswordfisherman]

22 hours ago, Rebel said:

@mrsswordfishermanDonna,

 

So you were a Coogee girl. I surfed at Tamarama & Bondi.

Did you ever go to the Bronte Stomp at the Bronte Surf Club on Sunday Nights.

Home of the Delltones and others before they were discovered.

The good old days.

Cheers.

Bondi used to sit at second ramp from memory. We had many surfers in our group. My bro was in Coogee Surfboard Riders so we knew many of the 70's known surfies. 

We went to many dances at surf clubs in the 70's and all the venues at Bondi Jct like The Bondi Lifesaver. Good times.

[Ganguddy Goodoo]

It is amazing how people equate cultural background with swimming ability. When my kids were about 3 and 5 they went for a swim in a hotel pool in Myanmar. The "lifeguard" approached me (sitting on side of pool) and expressed concern about their age. We got talking and when he found out I was an aussie he smiled and said they must be ok then.

Where my kids do swimming lessons about half the students are Indian or Chinese. There are some really strong little swimmers amongst them. 

I'd argue other factors have just as big an impact as cultural heritage. Swimming lessons aren't free so socio-economic status will effect how long families can stick at it. Also where you live geographically is going to play a massive part. My guys are confident in a pool and have spent heaps of time in inland rivers and creeks. While they love going to the beach during school holidays, when it comes to the ocean they are nowhere near as knowledgeable as the local kids who get to surf everyday after school. If you grew up on the coast and developed a sound understanding of the ocean when you were young consider yourself blessed.

[SquibblyDibbly]

9 minutes ago, Ganguddy Goodoo said:

It is amazing how people equate cultural background with swimming ability. When my kids were about 3 and 5 they went for a swim in a hotel pool in Myanmar. The "lifeguard" approached me (sitting on side of pool) and expressed concern about their age. We got talking and when he found out I was an aussie he smiled and said they must be ok then.

Where my kids do swimming lessons about half the students are Indian or Chinese. There are some really strong little swimmers amongst them. 

I'd argue other factors have just as big an impact as cultural heritage. Swimming lessons aren't free so socio-economic status will effect how long families can stick at it. Also where you live geographically is going to play a massive part. My guys are confident in a pool and have spent heaps of time in inland rivers and creeks. While they love going to the beach during school holidays, when it comes to the ocean they are nowhere near as knowledgeable as the local kids who get to surf everyday after school. If you grew up on the coast and developed a sound understanding of the ocean when you were young consider yourself blessed.

It's very true that not all foreigners are poor swimmers and we are very lucky to have grown up in Aus.

However, we shouldn't allow our fears of being labelled racist prevent sensible educational measures that could save lives. I have always wondered why there isn't a brief water safety message played to passengers on the plane on their way over.

There are hundreds of millions of people in mainland China that have next to no experience in the ocean and plenty of tour groups that pick them up at the airport and take them straight to the south end of Bondi beach. A recipe for disaster.

Likewise many sub-continent and middle eastern peoples who go swimming fully clothed.

Only yesterday I watched 2 fully clothed Chinese parents take their 10 year old kid down to the beach with an inflatable shark and send him swimming in the rip in 2m+ swell and the tide starting to run out. He was knee deep but another couple steps and he would have been gone and they would have both likely drowned if they went after him. Thankfully a surfer walked over and had a quick chat to the parents sending them down to the flags.