Wax on, wax Off. Or was it Paint Fence?

[Madkanu]

Sunday morning @dajayjay, @HawkesburyParadiseand I met up with @DerekD to continue our introduction to Sydney region fishing.  Now a big first for me was the fact that this was the first time I’ve ever gotten up in the dark and driven an hour INTO the city to go fishing!  I’m much more accustomed to driving away from civilisation. That said, I couldn’t argue with either the beauty or the apparent popularity of the location. 

Six and a half years now I’ve been living in Sydney and I’m still not at the point that I can take the Manly Ferry without taking a picture  it’s a beautiful city and who knew the Harbour was actually such a productive fishery!

We started out our morning practicing our lure techniques along-side a few other fishermen at the south end of McMahon’s Point facing into just enough of a southerly to make things interesting.  As the morning progressed so too did the southerly so by about mid-morning we relocated to the McMahon’s Point Ferry Wharf so we could cast across the wind.  This was a great spot and, for me, was strangely reminiscent of playing road hockey as a kid growing up in Northern Ontario and yelling “car!” as play was interrupted by a car driving through our “ice rink” only this time the cry was “ferry!”  

@DerekD covered a ton of ground with us sharing retrieves and techniques on a range of  soft plastics, slices, blades, vibes, top water and sinking lures.  My casting also got a further tune up (still not quite there but getting better).  Watching the way @DerekD worked soft plastics and rapala-type lures that I’ve fished for years sorta felt like Daniel-san in the Karate Kid when Mr Miyagi had him do the “paint fence” move and all of a sudden he saw the magic happened.  Ah-ha moment after ah-ha moment.  It also clicked that there a few key retrieves that can be adapted for a wide range of situations so once we nail the proverbial  side-side, paint fence and wax on/wax off, we should have a pretty versatile tool kit with which to work.  …and the casting. (That must be like that crazy crane kick). 

Although we weren’t really there to fish so much as practice techniques, we did hook into a couple sizeable fish which made things just a little more interesting and we made some new fishing buddies along the way.

Here’s a shot of us with one of those delay of play cars pulling away in the background.

Thanks Derek for an awesome morning of learning and laughing and @dajayjayand @HawkesburyParadisefor being such great partners with which to take the journey.  

 

[Little_Flatty]

Nice report @Madkanu. I suspect that's not the first time people have drawn comparisons between Derek's lessons and The Karate Kid  Except Derek's wax-on-wax-off is the walk-the-dog retrieve!

You'd be surprised how good the fishing is in the urban areas of the harbour. After a while you'll start to get excited when you see urban structure.

Were any of the sizeable fish landed?

[Madkanu]

7 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

Were any of the sizeable fish landed?

Thanks @Little_Flatty.  Unfortunately we didn’t land either of them. The first was a mackerel which hit on a GT Ice Cream lure I was playing with.  I got it up to the side of the wharf but to be honest started to pull it up but then gave it a bit of room at the wrong moment and it got off. The second was a hit that @DerekD had soon after however I’m not certain what it was. 

[noelm]

Not too sure how to word this without offending someone, somehow! But here goes, I have said this a thousand times (a thousand and one now...) but, knowing HOW to fish is the most important thing, secret spots, bait, space age line and rigs all play a minor part (in my opinion) if you know where fish will be, how your target species feeds and how to use your gear to suit that scenario, then good catches will come! There's an old saying that is very true, "90% of the fish are caught by 10% of the fishermen" and it's as true today, as it was 50 years ago. Sure urban sprawl and so on have made fishing tough going, but, the "thinking" fisherman will catch fish, regardless if he is new to an area, or it's Yowie fishing the "bay" using the right techniques in the right "fishy" areas will get you a decent catch. Getting a head start by being taught can cut years off your "learning curve" but, only if you listen and take it all in. A classic example, my brother in law lives near Balina, and wanted to catch a Mangrove Jack, and called me for advice, I told him I am not an expert on the area or the species, but, suggested live Poddy Mullet or live/very fresh Prawns, fished right in on snags should get you into "something" he said "that sounds like too much trouble/work" I just said to him, if you want to catch one, then you will have to do some work, catching bait and finding the right structure! He called a few days later and told me he got a packet of Prawns from the servo and fished from the bank, casting right out into the river and only caught small Bream and Toads, then preceded to tell me how the place is "fished out" and it must be the pros!! Someone like him will fluke a decent fish now and then, but, consistent catches will elude him forever....if you get what I mean? Fishing doesn't need to be hard work, but, it requires effort to be successful (in my opinion)

Edited February 13, 2023 by noelm

[Madkanu]

14 minutes ago, noelm said:

Not too sure how to word this without offending someone, somehow! But here goes, I have said this a thousand times (a thousand and one now...) but, knowing HOW to fish is the most important thing, secret spots, bait, space age line and rigs all play a minor part (in my opinion) if you know where fish will be, how your target species feeds and how to use your gear to suit that scenario, then good catches will come! There's an old saying that is very true, "90% of the fish are caught by 10% of the fishermen" and it's as true today, as it was 50 years ago. Sure urban sprawl and so on have made fishing tough going, but, the "thinking" fisherman will catch fish, regardless if he is new to an area, or it's Yowie fishing the "bay" using the right techniques in the right "fishy" areas will get you a decent catch. Getting a head start by being taught can cut years off your "learning curve" but, only if you listen and take it all in. A classic example, my brother in law lives near Balina, and wanted to catch a Mangrove Jack, and called me for advice, I told him I am not an expert on the area or the species, but, suggested live Poddy Mullet or live/very fresh Prawns, fished right in on snags should get you into "something" he said "that sounds like too much trouble/work" I just said to him, if you want to catch one, then you will have to do some work, catching bait and finding the right structure! He called a few days later and told me he got a packet of Prawns from the servo and fished from the bank, casting right out into the river and only caught small Bream and Toads, then preceded to tell me how the place is "fished out" and it must be the pros!! Someone like him will fluke a decent fish now and then, but, consistent catches will elude him forever....if you get what I mean? Fishing doesn't need to be hard work, but, it requires effort to be successful (in my opinion)

I think you're spot on @noelm.  When I was a kid in Northern Ontario we used to catch frogs to go after bass or minnows and go after pickerel or perch, look for the structure and snags and do very well.  My old man had worked out how to catch fish where we lived and that's what we did.  Later in life I lived near a great rainbow trout stream and saw guys pulling out all kinds of fish but I never really had much luck.  Bottom line was I didn't know what I was doing.  Fast forward another 10 years or so and my first few sessions on Pittwater I thought I would try some frozen squid from the servo and of course, wasn't having much luck.  But after a couple of sessions with someone who knows what they're doing and a whole new world has opened up.  I'm now thinking a lot more about tides, winds, bottom structure and presentation.  Now to practice and in-grain as much of that great advice as I possibly can!

[HawkesburyParadise]

Great session guys! Thank you Guru @DerekD for all your training and answering my very newbie questions. 

@Madkanu catching and losing the mackerel was disappointing but one of the other fishermen catching Kingy and getting the whole wharf excited was one of the highlights for me. 

 

 

[DerekD]

Hi @Madkanu

I enjoy reading your reports just as much as the actual session. With your reports I never see which direction they are heading and it is a fun surprise when I get there. First ballet and now martial arts.

When @Madkanu, @dajayjay and @HawkesburyParadise were rigged up for the start of the lesson I had an "awwww sh!t" moment. All of them had their handle on the left hand side of the reel. One of them is a Canadian so that was expected. The other two... Well one of them decided to try opposite side to see if it helped with working the rod. The other has no excuse.

Why "awww sh!t".... part of what I teach is to work the lures in a variety of ways. Now I know my braid is made of woven unicorn tail hair, my rod was given to me by Poseidon and my reels were made personally for me by the dwarf craftsmen Brokkr & Eitri (they also made Thors' hammer Mjölnir) but I often point out it is how you work the gear rather than the magical properties of the gear. To demonstrate the how I often pick up the gear of the student and demonstrate how to work the lures and prove conclusively that it comes down to the user. If I can work the lure with the hands reversed to how I usually do it then they can too. Problem is it feels uncomfortable and the normal rhythm I have is hard to maintain. I can still do it though but not for a long session. Fortunately one of them made the decision to come back into the light so it made further demonstrations a bit easier.

Joking aside. Which side the handle should be on is more often an academic argument - most of which I have heard. In the end I leave it down to the personal preference of the student but will discuss the practicalities so they can make an informed decision (my information so it is a little biased). One example I use is speed winding. There are several species for which fast retrieves are a killer method with lures and in some cases the faster the better. Most people will wind faster with their dominant hand and it takes a bit of training to get to the same speed with the opposite hand.

It was a pleasure fishing with all three of these gentlemen and watching their growth in technique and confidence during the session.

Regards,

Derek

Edited February 14, 2023 by DerekD

[DerekD]

4 hours ago, Madkanu said:

But after a couple of sessions with someone who knows what they're doing and a whole new world has opened up.  I'm now thinking a lot more about tides, winds, bottom structure and presentation.  Now to practice and in-grain as much of that great advice as I possibly can!

Hi @Madkanu 

Most of what I try to teach people they already know (even if just instinctively) but the big challenge for me with someone new is getting them to start thinking and retraining the autopilot. I try and get people to connect the dots but in different ways to actually be more pro-active in their fishing. The fact that you are now thinking about tides, winds, bottom structure and presentation is a huge step which will really pay off in the long term. You will be more engaged, there will be the donut days but you will also find the quality and at times the quantity of fish will increase.

Really glad to see your growth so far.

Regards,

Derek

[Ozzybass]

Great stuff Derek!

What you said about winding left handed - yes, it is what you're used to, but consider this - everyone else in the world, except for Australia & Japan (& NZ too I think) wind left-handed if they are right-handed.  I have reeled left-handed since childhood so its second nature to me.  I do admire those people, often of advanced age, that have made the switch.  I know I would not like to have to wind with my right hand.  I had to do that with baitcasters when I got my first one, but LHW baitcast reels are common nowadays.

Classic case for winding left-handed is lurecasting a trout stream for example.  You're fishing in fast shallow water, maybe using a lure that sinks (eg. a Celta).  If you can cast with your right hand, you can flip the bail over with your left hand almost instantly rather than having to switch hand holding the rod.  This means less chance that the lure sinks & catches the bottom which could mean snagging or picking up weed/algae. Using a buzzbait for bass fishing is another example where not switching hands is a major advantage.  However, it is what you're used to as I know of many Aussie right handers that wind with their right hand that can switch very well.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Ozzybass

[Ozzybass]

Madkanu - if you had any bass fishing experience in North America?  If so, you may like to consider Aussie bass fishing.  Great fun on lures.

[Madkanu]

4 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi @Madkanu

I enjoy reading your reports just as much as the actual session. With your reports I never see which direction they are heading and it is a fun surprise when I get there. First ballet and now martial arts.

When @Madkanu, @dajayjay and @HawkesburyParadise were rigged up for the start of the lesson I had an "awwww sh!t" moment. All of them had their handle on the left hand side of the reel. One of them is a Canadian so that was expected. The other two... Well one of them decided to try opposite side to see if it helped with working the rod. The other has no excuse.

Why "awww sh!t".... part of what I teach is to work the lures in a variety of ways. Now I know my braid is made of woven unicorn tail hair, my rod was given to me by Poseidon and my reels were made personally for me by the dwarf craftsmen Brokkr & Eitri (they also made Thors' hammer Mjölnir) but I often point out it is how you work the gear rather than the magical properties of the gear. To demonstrate the how I often pick up the gear of the student and demonstrate how to work the lures and prove conclusively that it comes down to the user. If I can work the lure with the hands reversed to how I usually do it then they can too. Problem is it feels uncomfortable and the normal rhythm I have is hard to maintain. I can still do it though but not for a long session. Fortunately one of them made the decision to come back into the light so it made further demonstrations a bit easier.

Joking aside. Which side the handle should be on is more often an academic argument - most of which I have heard. In the end I leave it down to the personal preference of the student but will discuss the practicalities so they can make an informed decision (my information so it is a little biased). One example I use is speed winding. There are several species for which fast retrieves are a killer method with lures and in some cases the faster the better. Most people will wind faster with their dominant hand and it takes a bit of training to get to the same speed with the opposite hand.

It was a pleasure fishing with all three of these gentlemen and watching their growth in technique and confidence during the session.

Regards,

Derek

Thanks @DerekD.  I’m glad to hear I’ve been able to start to put some small dent in my debt with some entertainment value at least.

The handle side debate is a fun one. I’ve proven to myself I can crank faster with my right hand so I’m already halfway there. Maybe once I get everything dialed in just the way I want I’ll make it interesting again by switching hands. 🙂

Incidentally, does the Fishing Station carry Brokkr & Eitri or will I have to send away for that? 🤣

[Madkanu]

26 minutes ago, Ozzybass said:

Madkanu - if you had any bass fishing experience in North America?  If so, you may like to consider Aussie bass fishing.  Great fun on lures.

Thanks @Ozzybass  Yes, absolutely. It was actually a very productive morning of smallmouth bass fishing in the north-eastern part of Lake Huron during my last trip home that reignited the fishing bug in me.  I’ll have a look at basssydney.com. Pound for pound they put up the biggest fight among the fish we would target in Northern Ontario. 

[Madkanu]

6 hours ago, HawkesburyParadise said:

Great session guys! Thank you Guru @DerekD for all your training and answering my very newbie questions. 

@Madkanu catching and losing the mackerel was disappointing but one of the other fishermen catching Kingy and getting the whole wharf excited was one of the highlights for me. 

 

 

You’re right @HawkesburyParadise  That was very exciting!

[Mike Sydney]

10 hours ago, noelm said:

Not too sure how to word this without offending someone, somehow! But here goes, I have said this a thousand times (a thousand and one now...) but, knowing HOW to fish is the most important thing, secret spots, bait, space age line and rigs all play a minor part (in my opinion) if you know where fish will be, how your target species feeds and how to use your gear to suit that scenario, then good catches will come! There's an old saying that is very true, "90% of the fish are caught by 10% of the fishermen" and it's as true today, as it was 50 years ago. Sure urban sprawl and so on have made fishing tough going, but, the "thinking" fisherman will catch fish, regardless if he is new to an area, or it's Yowie fishing the "bay" using the right techniques in the right "fishy" areas will get you a decent catch. Getting a head start by being taught can cut years off your "learning curve" but, only if you listen and take it all in. A classic example, my brother in law lives near Balina, and wanted to catch a Mangrove Jack, and called me for advice, I told him I am not an expert on the area or the species, but, suggested live Poddy Mullet or live/very fresh Prawns, fished right in on snags should get you into "something" he said "that sounds like too much trouble/work" I just said to him, if you want to catch one, then you will have to do some work, catching bait and finding the right structure! He called a few days later and told me he got a packet of Prawns from the servo and fished from the bank, casting right out into the river and only caught small Bream and Toads, then preceded to tell me how the place is "fished out" and it must be the pros!! Someone like him will fluke a decent fish now and then, but, consistent catches will elude him forever....if you get what I mean? Fishing doesn't need to be hard work, but, it requires effort to be successful (in my opinion)

Several months ago I was fishing a few hours for bream using small lures at the mouth of the cooks river. Me and my mate had barely a bite between us and were leaving just as another bloke arrived.

”Don’t waste your time it’s dead” says my mate, a minute later first cast the newcomer pulls a bream out from right under where we were on a cooked prawn.

Chalk up another win for bait in the bait v lure debate…But also a humbling reminder that no bites is most often an issue of technique!

[dajayjay]

A great session indeed! Had a lot of fun learning new techniques from @DerekD and pleasure meeting @Madkanu and @HawkesburyParadise. 

[Isaac Ct]

Great day out, well done.

 

[Ozzybass]

3 hours ago, Madkanu said:

Thanks @Ozzybass  Yes, absolutely. It was actually a very productive morning of smallmouth bass fishing in the north-eastern part of Lake Huron during my last trip home that reignited the fishing bug in me.  I’ll have a look at basssydney.com. Pound for pound they put up the biggest fight among the fish we would target in Northern Ontario. 

Smallmouths are my absolute fave American bass!  I lived in US for 4 yrs.  I might be struck by lightning for saying this...but I think I like them more than Aussie bass!

[DerekD]

4 hours ago, Ozzybass said:

Great stuff Derek!

What you said about winding left handed - yes, it is what you're used to, but consider this - everyone else in the world, except for Australia & Japan (& NZ too I think) wind left-handed if they are right-handed.  I have reeled left-handed since childhood so its second nature to me.  I do admire those people, often of advanced age, that have made the switch.  I know I would not like to have to wind with my right hand.  I had to do that with baitcasters when I got my first one, but LHW baitcast reels are common nowadays.

Classic case for winding left-handed is lurecasting a trout stream for example.  You're fishing in fast shallow water, maybe using a lure that sinks (eg. a Celta).  If you can cast with your right hand, you can flip the bail over with your left hand almost instantly rather than having to switch hand holding the rod.  This means less chance that the lure sinks & catches the bottom which could mean snagging or picking up weed/algae. Using a buzzbait for bass fishing is another example where not switching hands is a major advantage.  However, it is what you're used to as I know of many Aussie right handers that wind with their right hand that can switch very well.

Hi @Ozzybass

Really thought provoking response.

I'm in a playful mood tonight... Ok. I'll bite.

This topic was recently raised by @big Neil out of genuine curiosity. I stayed out of it that time but I've got a bit of time spare this evening.

First note: Just cause most of the rest of the world does it doesn't mean it is better. For many years the Australian cricket team was better than the rest of the world (I expect this comment will come back to bite me).

As I said most of these left versus right hand discussions are academic and I can argue either way but I've had enough situations where casting right hand and winding right hand has been an advantage to me so short of an unexpected injury I don't see my style changing - ever.

Over the last few years I've been fishing with several people (including Europeans) that have the preference you stated and I realised that while not necessarily having huge short comings they didn't really have a huge (if any) advantage. I also say it is academic as with enough training the advantages of one over the other is negligible but for the fun of it I'm going with the argument dominant hand winding is superior.

First example, winding speed. As mentioned earlier, we have several species for which a fast lure is a deadly attractant. In some cases the faster you can wind the more likely you are to hook up. I've done this test with multiple people and the winding speed of their dominant hand is noticeably faster. Think back to the old fashioned handle driven egg beater. Which hand did you or for that matter would you use now. Head to head I could generally wind about 20% faster right handed than they could wind left handed.

Jigging in the ocean and I'm not talking about slow pitch jigging. My dominant hand is more dexterous and stronger. With jigging all my left hand/arm has to do is lift the rod up and down. My right hand can both wind and assist on the upstroke making the overall task slightly less taxing.

While we are discussing ocean fishing. Why are most overhead reels right handed?? Again the left hand can steady the rod and I can bring the right hand onto the rod to assist with the lift stroke but then switch quickly back to the handle to wind while the left arm lowers the rod. I'm doing one task with my less dominant hand and two with my more dexterous hand.

I would have used right handed bait casters as another example but you nipped that one in the bud. 😀

Recently had an epiphany about the advantage of the method I use. Thanks to @Niall I've been doing more topwater bream fishing and have been helping others do so. A lot of it is covering ground and casting parallel and reasonably close to the shore. In other words you have to be pretty spot on with your casting. I want to to imagine a scenario where you as a right handed caster have some overhead branches (thus no overhead casting) and have to cast 10m parallel and close to the shore. You are looking out along a long straight boardwalk across the bay. You can choose to turn left or turn right. As a right hander what is your preferred direction to cast. Mine is to my left (forehand sweep of the rod). To be clear I can cast one handed or two handed and backhanded or forehanded and in any combination but my preference is to swing forehand and thus parallel to the shore line on my left. All good?? Now the really funny thing is that to actually work the lure with the tight movements I like my preference is to work the lure from my left side and towards my right side. My casting and retrieve style are very complimentary and I'll keep walking along the bay to my left. Several people I've taken out for this style of fishing which use your system have struggled. Holding the rod in the right hand their preference is to work the lure from right side to left (bringing the index finger into play for a more finesse presentation) but their preferred casting stroke would put the lure in completely the opposite direction. These people were very capable casters but genuinely struggled casting consistently and accurately to their right (backhand stroke).

With respect to freshwater fishing you talk about the advantage of being able to flick the bail arm and start winding. When I mentor people one of the things I work on first is casting and getting rid of double handling and small inefficient practices. I may be the exception but the way I cast I flick the bail arm by hand just as the lure touches the water and swap hands almost instantly so the advantage you are talking about is less than a split second. I chase bass in rivers and use spinners and this technique of very quickly switching hands hasn't let me down yet. To be honest I'll have to spend a bit more time with the baitcasters to see if that is also as quick but to date I haven't had an issue there with what I have done so far.

I plan to take @Madkanu fishing for bass, carp, luderick and to pump yabbies as part of his Oz training.

By the way, if you are in the inner west then I would like to head out with you one day for a topwater session and we can continue the discussion and try for some fish at the same time.

Over to you.

Regards,

Derek

PS. On a side note I've been mentoring a friend who is for all intents a beginner at fishing. He also happens to be left handed. Since one option was the same as the other I set his outfit up so his reel handle was on the right hand side (another win for my side). I played to the academic advantage in this case plus it meant I could demonstrate concepts to him on his gear without any annoying changes to my technique to compensate.

Edited February 14, 2023 by DerekD

[fish-aholic]

@Madkanu one of the best report I have read today where pics weren’t the focus. I guess your fishing skills are as good as your writing mate , at least they are going to be soon with the great Sefu @DerekD

@DerekDhats off to you. I wish and hope to have few more sessions with you soon.

[Madkanu]

1 hour ago, fish-aholic said:

@Madkanu one of the best report I have read today where pics weren’t the focus. I guess your fishing skills are as good as your writing mate , at least they are going to be soon with the great Sefu @DerekD

@DerekDhats off to you. I wish and hope to have few more sessions with you soon.

Cheers @fish-aholic!  Appreciate that. Thanks to @DerekD‘s patience we’re getting there. 

[Gengar]

Great report mate! I have been living in sydney for many years (though only started fishing about three years ago) but never fished McMahon point area. Judging from the photo I know why it's such a popular spot! Even if u don't get a fish u have a great view!

[Madkanu]

23 hours ago, Gengar said:

Great report mate! I have been living in sydney for many years (though only started fishing about three years ago) but never fished McMahon point area. Judging from the photo I know why it's such a popular spot! Even if u don't get a fish u have a great view!

Cheers @Gengar!  It was a fun morning and definitely a great spot. If you’re handy to the lower north shore definitely worth a try. 

[noelm]

I guess lots of these things are personal preference long soft rods, stiff rods, short rods, left hand wind, right hand wind, it's all very individual, sure there might be a dozen "theories" why you should wind left handed, but, in the end, it's what suits you! I am right handed, and wind right handed, wrong? Not for me. In most things in life, was use our dominate hand, but we can use a knife and fork using both hands at once, we can drive a car or motor bike using both hands to do "jobs", fishing in a way is no different, as thecold saying goes..."if it feels good, do it"