New engine

[JonD]

I came very close to buying a new boat recently but decided with all the extras my little Formula has to stick with it and go for a re-power instead. A Yam F115 came up at a good price but was unfortunately an xl 25 ins leg. I decided to go ahead with the XL and use the rising brackets to raise it 5 ins, in fact I raised it 6 ins putting the antiventilation plate 1in above the keel. The added weight is only about 15kg from the honda 90 but the power and weight did put me above the boats plate recommendation, which was a cost of $500 to change. Ive had to add 20lt of buoyancy to meet the new plate regs.

Getting cables up through a very small half tube under floor was a nightmare to say the least. Putting it on the water yesterday I could notice a difference in weight on the bum and also stability slightly from the added height, neither as much as I had expected though.

Thought I would test with a Solas 13 3/8 x 17 first. Quite surprisingly this prop didn't bog down like it had on the Honda, which I had to change to a 4 blade and even then still bogged a fair amount.

A touch of the throttle and this prop seemed to now grip far better and pop me straight up on the plane. Even trimmed almost fully out it pops the boat out of the hole like a rocket. 

At 3500rpm I looked at the gauges and gps and couldn't believe I was sitting around 40kh for 3km per litre.

Up the rpm to 4500rpm and I was sitting at a respectable 55kh and 2.8km per litre

Trimmed down a fair amount due to the conditions it very quickly shot to 6000rpm and 75kh, to fast to notice the fuel range!!!!!..next time

The bar crossing had a warning of 1.9m and once outside the chop was to hard to test for long so I headed back with a boy racer smile on my face.

My plan for more power is more about carrying extra fuel and water for extended offshore island trips up north. I was wanting more power for quickly covering greater distances during weather breaks. The issue with the Honda was fuel burn once Vtec kicked in at higher rpm I dropped to almost half the fuel of what this Yam is using. 

Im going to stick with this prop for now but feel there's still a bit more performance there if I just want to do lighter loads on flat days.

This is fun.

[Rebel]

Nice boat.

[dunc333]

looks great Jon and the engine wont get swamped as much being  6inchs higher either also are the rising brackets stainless or aluminium cheers dunc333

Edited June 21, 2023 by dunc333

[zmk1962]

10 hours ago, JonD said:

I came very close to buying a new boat recently but decided with all the extras my little Formula has to stick with it and go for a re-power instead. A Yam F115 came up at a good price but was unfortunately an xl 25 ins leg. I decided to go ahead with the XL and use the rising brackets to raise it 5 ins, in fact I raised it 6 ins putting the antiventilation plate 1in above the keel. The added weight is only about 15kg from the honda 90 but the power and weight did put me above the boats plate recommendation, which was a cost of $500 to change. Ive had to add 20lt of buoyancy to meet the new plate regs.

Getting cables up through a very small half tube under floor was a nightmare to say the least. Putting it on the water yesterday I could notice a difference in weight on the bum and also stability slightly from the added height, neither as much as I had expected though.

Thought I would test with a Solas 13 3/8 x 17 first. Quite surprisingly this prop didn't bog down like it had on the Honda, which I had to change to a 4 blade and even then still bogged a fair amount.

A touch of the throttle and this prop seemed to now grip far better and pop me straight up on the plane. Even trimmed almost fully out it pops the boat out of the hole like a rocket. 

At 3500rpm I looked at the gauges and gps and couldn't believe I was sitting around 40kh for 3km per litre.

Up the rpm to 4500rpm and I was sitting at a respectable 55kh and 2.8km per litre

Trimmed down a fair amount due to the conditions it very quickly shot to 6000rpm and 75kh, to fast to notice the fuel range!!!!!..next time

The bar crossing had a warning of 1.9m and once outside the chop was to hard to test for long so I headed back with a boy racer smile on my face.

My plan for more power is more about carrying extra fuel and water for extended offshore island trips up north. I was wanting more power for quickly covering greater distances during weather breaks. The issue with the Honda was fuel burn once Vtec kicked in at higher rpm I dropped to almost half the fuel of what this Yam is using. 

Im going to stick with this prop for now but feel there's still a bit more performance there if I just want to do lighter loads on flat days.

This is fun.

That's sensational fuel consumption ... you gotta be happy with that !

Cheers Z

[JonD]

4 hours ago, dunc333 said:

looks great Jon and the engine wont get swamped as much being  6inchs higher either also are the rising brackets stainless or aluminium cheers dunc333

Aluminium, not cheap at $495.

2 hours ago, zmk1962 said:

That's sensational fuel consumption ... you gotta be happy with that !

Cheers Z

Yes very, that's the shelf and back on around 12lt from here, sounds like a joke!!!! Montague and back under 7lt and a big run to the seamounts and back 30lt possibly. Looking forward to exploring further afield in the future when the weather is good.

This is very close to my economy, however Im using a better prop and slightly lighter and smaller boat, so a bit better performance. 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by JonD

[Marky mark]

Those formula's are great little hulls and love to go fast, weeeee!!

[JonD]

4 hours ago, Marky mark said:

Those formula's are great little hulls and love to go fast, weeeee!!

Yes, just been out for an afternoon session on the squid and couldn't help but keep that throttle all the way down. Like you say, they like being pushed hard.

[antonywardle]

@JonD Great write up.

 

I'm going through a similar thing myself. Repower time.

It will either be a suzi or a yamaha. I  looked at the mercs but I don't think that they are for me.

 

Was the uprated compliance plate easy? I'm guessing that it was the guy in queensland who

does it all off pictures?

 

[JustJames]

4 minutes ago, antonywardle said:

I  looked at the mercs but I don't think that they are for me.

I'd be interested to know why you don't think the Merc is for you Antony.

 

Reason for my question is that I recently bought a new-to-me boat with a Merc 150.  I wanted a boat with a 4 stroke, but didn't have any preconceived ideas.  I have been delighted to discover that the maintenance requirements of the Mercury are as simple as could be, and well within the capabilities of an owner who is happy to twirl spanners.  For that reason I have become a big fan of the Mercury.  That said, I understand different people have different requirements, and have zero intention of starting an internet stoush over this!  But I am curious to know your criteria.

[JonD]

 

 

The place I used is called KPS Marine. It was very easy to do, they have a template where you do side and rear photos and fill in the measurement requirements. You also take a photo of the old build plate and they got back to me the next day. They do the calculations of how much extra buoyancy you will need (if any) and can also sell you the exact amount if thats easier. You then have to send them a picture showing that you have fitted the new build plate and fitted the foam buoyancy. I was able to jamb my foam (12lt) up under the transom.

You can go online and fill the application in without costing anything. The weight difference between my new and old engine wasn't much, hence why I only needed 12lt of added buoyancy. 

I also went from a long to extra long shaft engine using engine mount brackets which I believe can be used on engines up to 400hp.

In regards to the difference the power has made, its quite simply make my boat far safer crossing bars, I can get up and go when needed. I had this grand allusion that I would be cruising at lower rpm using less fuel in the 22-26kts area!!!!! It does do exactly that but the extra power has turned me into an almost 60yr old rev head, if its not reving out at 40kts its simply not fun!!!!!....in saying that the economy is still pretty good even at full noise.

Edited August 8, 2023 by JonD

[JonD]

On 8/8/2023 at 8:05 AM, antonywardle said:

@JonD Great write up.

 

I'm going through a similar thing myself. Repower time.

It will either be a suzi or a yamaha. I  looked at the mercs but I don't think that they are for me.

 

Was the uprated compliance plate easy? I'm guessing that it was the guy in queensland who

does it all off pictures?

 

This is who I used, very straight forward and easy https://kpsmaritime.com.au/abp-form/

[JonD]

On 8/8/2023 at 8:15 AM, JustJames said:

I'd be interested to know why you don't think the Merc is for you Antony.

 

Reason for my question is that I recently bought a new-to-me boat with a Merc 150.  I wanted a boat with a 4 stroke, but didn't have any preconceived ideas.  I have been delighted to discover that the maintenance requirements of the Mercury are as simple as could be, and well within the capabilities of an owner who is happy to twirl spanners.  For that reason I have become a big fan of the Mercury.  That said, I understand different people have different requirements, and have zero intention of starting an internet stoush over this!  But I am curious to know your criteria.

I passed comments on the amount of mercury engines at the boat show to various dealers, who's reactions were much the same, even dealers who sold merc and other brands. They claim its early days with mercury and unlike the big Japanese brands mercury put the engines out there and fix issues as they arise, where the Japanese brands do far more testing before putting a product on the market. They remarked on how Etec did much the same a few years back, I also remember the boat show floors with Etec motors dominating the floor. Time however didn't work well for Etec as we all know. I posted on here a while ago on the commercial 250 merc we have on the boat I often skipper, which I believe is up around 6 trips back in the repair shop on warranty issues in 6 months of use. I also believe the 150 merc is also having some of these same issues.

For me not being overly mechanical and doing trips away in remote locations I prefer using manufacturers with a proven record.

[Blackfish]

Yes noticed the same thing at the show regarding the Mercs, bloody everywhere 

[JonD]

2 hours ago, Blackfish said:

Yes noticed the same thing at the show regarding the Mercs, bloody everywhere 

The one we are using commercially is very good in terms of power and economy and the throttle controls are first class for now. My daughter has a 60 merc on her boat which again has heaps of grunt and fantastic economy but the paint is blistering and peeling off with with powdery corrosion on the lower leg. Im just hoping it isn't doing the same on the internal parts of her engine as her model has no powered anodes, they simply have the one on the leg which looks better than the leg itself (engine hours around 150).

[antonywardle]

Some great reads in here

 

@JonD I think thats who I will go with too. The suzi place will do it for me.

 

@JustJames For me, i think there are a couple of things that are leaning more to the Suzuki, or the Japanese side of thinking. I think that their corrosion protection is a little better. I like that there is a 6 year warranty. It has lean burn so i think that my driving style will mean it is ok on fuel. After your comment, I'm now a bit worried now that I may end up being a nearly 60 y/o rev head if I also discover a heap of extra power! I like tech and the fly by wire seems to be the way to go. Its a white engine which will suit my boat a bit more. I'm pretty good with computers and what that means is that I don't have to be very good with engines and will be going with dealer servicing. There is a an American guy on youtube who see's a lot of engines and he basically said, reliability, go Japanese.

I'm happy for you and you new boat and I hope you get a lot of  trouble free years out of it.

 

I'm going from a 90HP ETEC (145kg) and thinking that the Suzi 140 (186kg) will  be the approach. Merc would be a 115 pro xs and the yamaha is a 130. I don't need to go fast and really I can only do that in Brisbane water. Offshore it hurts too much and everything gets thrown around. 

Pricing, most seems fairly similar. Trying to find the year servicing pricing has been a lot more challenging

 

[Bryant fish]

I have 20 year old tohatsus both have peeling  paint ii was under the impression us motors had better corrosion resistance but only what I’ve heard.any boat item is expensive especially motors so they better be good

[JonD]

4 hours ago, antonywardle said:

Some great reads in here

 

@JonD I think thats who I will go with too. The suzi place will do it for me.

 

@JustJames For me, i think there are a couple of things that are leaning more to the Suzuki, or the Japanese side of thinking. I think that their corrosion protection is a little better. I like that there is a 6 year warranty. It has lean burn so i think that my driving style will mean it is ok on fuel. After your comment, I'm now a bit worried now that I may end up being a nearly 60 y/o rev head if I also discover a heap of extra power! I like tech and the fly by wire seems to be the way to go. Its a white engine which will suit my boat a bit more. I'm pretty good with computers and what that means is that I don't have to be very good with engines and will be going with dealer servicing. There is a an American guy on youtube who see's a lot of engines and he basically said, reliability, go Japanese.

I'm happy for you and you new boat and I hope you get a lot of  trouble free years out of it.

 

I'm going from a 90HP ETEC (145kg) and thinking that the Suzi 140 (186kg) will  be the approach. Merc would be a 115 pro xs and the yamaha is a 130. I don't need to go fast and really I can only do that in Brisbane water. Offshore it hurts too much and everything gets thrown around. 

Pricing, most seems fairly similar. Trying to find the year servicing pricing has been a lot more challenging

 

The fella I often work for on the commercial boat is a Yamaha trained mechanic, when the Yamaha family business was sold he decided to do a mix of commercial urchin and abalone fishing and mobile mechanical outboard work. His brother went north to Albion Pk where he owns the Suzuki dealership. Ive owned both Yam and Suzuki engines, including a Suzuki 140 on my last boat. With Suzuki engines you need to have the plugs changed regularly and special attention needs to be taken with the powerhead anodes.

When I bought my Suzuki 140 it had had a service which included powerhead anodes replaced just 38 engine hours earlier. Problem was this 38 engine hours had taken  2yrs to reach and on ispection there was nothing of them left and the powerhead was completely blocked with salt. Obviously regular use and yearly servicing would of hopefully found these issues earlier. Mine also had a fault where sometimes the engine would not rev above 3000rpm, fixing it was simply turning off then restarting and it would be ok again but not something you want to happen crossing a bar when you need all the horses!!!!!... I believe Suzuki fixed that issue on the newer engines. Another thing I was warned about were gearbox issues with the Suzuki engines and sure enough my 140 needed a gearbox rebuild at 350hrs. Local maritime vessels here have also had gearbox issues as they also do lots of forward reversing changes. To be fair I do engage forward and reverse far more than most people when I have spear fishers in the water and need to stay close to them, also when I drift fish. My 140 Suzuki's were'nt as easy to service as the Yam's as the oil filter is placed low on Suzuki, which meant removing the plastic fairing. My 90 Suzuki never gave me any issues at all, very economical and very powerful. I do like them in white and Im sure newer engines have had improvements, mine were 2014 and 2015 models.

With my older Yamaha engines Ive had anodes and plugs changed at 600hrs, which still looked very good. Yamaha also do white engines and obviously can have issues too, Ive just never had any from them having owned 5 Yam four strokes so far. Ive seen good reviews on the F130.

Personally I would be happy with any of the big three Yam Suz Merc but if I was thinking more of maximising engine hours and resale value, I think my money would still have to go towards Yamaha. 

[dunc333]

agree the big three are all good theses days they all have there good and bad but if looked after they are all great.and the main thing you need is a good and honest service tech that dosnt try to drain your bank account .and when you find a good one you tell your mates and so on .a good tech like family cheers dunc333