LBG overhead reel recommendations

[kc687]

Hi guys, I've been shopping around for a smaller lever drag overhead to use for live baiting from the rocks primarily for kings around Sydney along the heads and possibly chase longtails a bit up and down the NSW coast (not super far, and nothing with massive expectations like JB). I've already been into stickbaiting and jigging for a while which is great fun but want to switch it up a little and have another means of fishing while working lures.   
I've considered mainly either the: speedmaster, talica or tiagra in 16 or 20, and possibly the Penn international VISX16 although I'm not certain how well servicing and warranty may work out since it it  not as commonly used as the Shimano models. I have a 10-15kg rod and plan to use braid with a 100m or so of mono topshot (most likely 10-15kg) to get the most line capacity but maintain the benefits given by the stretch of mono however I am not opposed to using mono throughout (which will eat into the line capacity since they are smaller reels and probably downsize to 10kg). 

Would you have any suggestions on which and why or why not you would go with the choice you made? 

Cheers everyone, tight lines!

[slowjigger]

You want 600m of line if you are chasing bluefin - they will run a long way. Also 10 - 15kg top shot is a rather light for kingfish off the rocks. I'd be looking at 24 kg. They are powerful and very dirty fighters. 

[JonD]

I like the talica reels, however you won't cast as far as you possibly will with a spin reel such as a big saragosa etc. Personally I would use at least 80lb topshot fishing from rocks. Are you hoping to cast baits, let them swim their selves out or drop them with a drone ?

[slothparade]

wilson live fibres are good, mate has one and love it, got it paired with a tiagra 50w but he isnt casting 

the penn prevails are good with a small talica as they can be casted 

i have a custom game rod, its about 6ft roller guides, though im not casting 

[JonD]

Ive been using a 3 piece Shimano grappler travel rod on tuna and other tough fighting fish which would be my choice as these are easy to carry around or climb cliffs with, they cast extremely well and able to be used from rocks, beach or boat.

I used mine to test it out on salmon from the shore and was surprised how light I could flick lures in the 40g up size. The rod was fun on average sized salmon but equally at home with my first cast from the boat where I landed a yellowfin of around 65-70kg. I took the rod to a remote offshore island up north with a group of friends who also bought a grappler each and we managed numerous species including tuna's, Spanish mackerel, very large travallies etc. Not sure is they do multi versions as I use an 8000 saragosa with mine.

If you buy an overhead you may find it gets used very little in comparison to this outfit I mention and if you decide to sell it on your market would be far less that the spin outfit in my opinion.

 

[Rebel]

I do alot of rock fishing. Just use the basics.

10ft or12ft spin rod with a 4500 or 5000 spin reel.

Never have a problem.

I use lures & bait & a good quality Mono line.

Not into braid.

Cheers.

[JonD]

36 minutes ago, Rebel said:

I do alot of rock fishing. Just use the basics.

10ft or12ft spin rod with a 4500 or 5000 spin reel.

Never have a problem.

I use lures & bait & a good quality Mono line.

Not into braid.

Cheers.

Are you targeting tuna with that outfit ? how much line are you getting on a 4500 reel and don't you find a 12ft rod back breaking on bigger game species.

[slowjigger]

6 hours ago, JonD said:

Ive been using a 3 piece Shimano grappler travel rod on tuna and other tough fighting fish which would be my choice as these are easy to carry around or climb cliffs with, they cast extremely well and able to be used from rocks, beach or boat.

I used mine to test it out on salmon from the shore and was surprised how light I could flick lures in the 40g up size. The rod was fun on average sized salmon but equally at home with my first cast from the boat where I landed a yellowfin of around 65-70kg. I took the rod to a remote offshore island up north with a group of friends who also bought a grappler each and we managed numerous species including tuna's, Spanish mackerel, very large travallies etc. Not sure is they do multi versions as I use an 8000 saragosa with mine.

If you buy an overhead you may find it gets used very little in comparison to this outfit I mention and if you decide to sell it on your market would be far less that the spin outfit in my opinion.

 

Well he said he is branching out from spinning to live baiting - so presumably he already has a spin outfit. A lever drag overhead is what you want for live baiting. PS: 80lb line is alright for a leader but overkill for a 100m top shot. No one is strong enough to use its potential through a LBG rod. Could be dangerous too given it is virtually unbreakable. 

[kc687]

9 hours ago, slowjigger said:

You want 600m of line if you are chasing bluefin - they will run a long way. Also 10 - 15kg top shot is a rather light for kingfish off the rocks. I'd be looking at 24 kg. They are powerful and very dirty fighters. 

Hey slowjigger, I'll definitely consider bumping up the top shot if that is the case. I hoped that 15kg was maybe enough from chatting with some guys I know who have done LBG longer than I have but 24kg will go into my consideration! 

[EdC]

A 20000 size spin reel holds 500m of 65lb braid, which should be more than enough for LBG. The drags on these reels are very good these days.

You can also cast/jig with it, which you cannot do with a Tiagra.

 

 

[kc687]

7 hours ago, JonD said:

I like the talica reels, however you won't cast as far as you possibly will with a spin reel such as a big saragosa etc. Personally I would use at least 80lb topshot fishing from rocks. Are you hoping to cast baits, let them swim their selves out or drop them with a drone ?

Hey Jon, casting won't be too much of an issue as I plan to drop them in and let them swim out with the swell and current as where I normally fish has a pretty strong current line close to shore. Would you also say that the 80lb topshot is important for it's breaking strain or abrasion resistance as I'll likely run something like 100lb trace from the topshot to the hook. From my understanding, fighting fish on an overhead doesn't often go past the strike drag (case dependent of course but I'm all ear since it's a completely new world for me)

[kc687]

6 hours ago, slothparade said:

wilson live fibres are good, mate has one and love it, got it paired with a tiagra 50w but he isnt casting 

the penn prevails are good with a small talica as they can be casted 

i have a custom game rod, its about 6ft roller guides, though im not casting 

 

6 hours ago, JonD said:

Ive been using a 3 piece Shimano grappler travel rod on tuna and other tough fighting fish which would be my choice as these are easy to carry around or climb cliffs with, they cast extremely well and able to be used from rocks, beach or boat.

I used mine to test it out on salmon from the shore and was surprised how light I could flick lures in the 40g up size. The rod was fun on average sized salmon but equally at home with my first cast from the boat where I landed a yellowfin of around 65-70kg. I took the rod to a remote offshore island up north with a group of friends who also bought a grappler each and we managed numerous species including tuna's, Spanish mackerel, very large travallies etc. Not sure is they do multi versions as I use an 8000 saragosa with mine.

If you buy an overhead you may find it gets used very little in comparison to this outfit I mention and if you decide to sell it on your market would be far less that the spin outfit in my opinion.

 

 

6 hours ago, Rebel said:

I do alot of rock fishing. Just use the basics.

10ft or12ft spin rod with a 4500 or 5000 spin reel.

Never have a problem.

I use lures & bait & a good quality Mono line.

Not into braid.

Cheers.

Cheers boys, I really appreciate your responses! I'm just dabbling into the overhead side of fishing and already have couple zenaq rods (sonio and accura) that I pair with a twinpower 6k and saltiga 10k so I'm all set on that side of things but the replies from everyone has really helped me out a lot 

[kc687]

17 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

Well he said he is branching out from spinning to live baiting - so presumably he already has a spin outfit. A lever drag overhead is what you want for live baiting. PS: 80lb line is alright for a leader but overkill for a 100m top shot. No one is strong enough to use its potential through a LBG rod. Could be dangerous too given it is virtually unbreakable. 

Thanks! Yes I figured that the leader would need to be upsized to around 80-120lb for the abrasion resistance (as it is with spinning), and that the topshot could possibly be as light as 15kg. Appreciate the reply mate

[slowjigger]

13 minutes ago, kc687 said:

Hey Jon, casting won't be too much of an issue as I plan to drop them in and let them swim out with the swell and current as where I normally fish has a pretty strong current line close to shore. Would you also say that the 80lb topshot is important for it's breaking strain or abrasion resistance as I'll likely run something like 100lb trace from the topshot to the hook. From my understanding, fighting fish on an overhead doesn't often go past the strike drag (case dependent of course but I'm all ear since it's a completely new world for me)

I used to go past strike on kingies trying to reef me. I would go as high as my knees could stay straight with a 60 lb top shot. A lever drag reel also good for bluefin as some times you want to back the drag off to change their direction (they can run around headlands) or so they can outrun sharks. You can instantly return to strike drag with this type of reel. Also handy if you leave the outfit in a rod holder. You can leave a little bit of drag on to prevent an overrun. 

[slowjigger]

22 minutes ago, kc687 said:

Thanks! Yes I figured that the leader would need to be upsized to around 80-120lb for the abrasion resistance (as it is with spinning), and that the topshot could possibly be as light as 15kg. Appreciate the reply mate

15 kg would be fine for bluefin (with 1.5 to 2 rod lengths of double). You could always change over the top shot depending on whether you are targeting kings or bluefin. 

[JonD]

34 minutes ago, kc687 said:

Hey Jon, casting won't be too much of an issue as I plan to drop them in and let them swim out with the swell and current as where I normally fish has a pretty strong current line close to shore. Would you also say that the 80lb topshot is important for it's breaking strain or abrasion resistance as I'll likely run something like 100lb trace from the topshot to the hook. From my understanding, fighting fish on an overhead doesn't often go past the strike drag (case dependent of course but I'm all ear since it's a completely new world for me)

I use the same 50lb mamoi diamond clear which breaks at 82lb, no idea why they call it 50lb. I use it straight through without leaders on most fish. Some of my outfits have 50m+ while others only 5-6m of the topshot. For me its more about handling the fish when they are close from the shore, rocks or boat. When Im up north I pick rocks where they gently slope into the water so I can slide fish onto the slope. Topshot any lighter and it can cut into my hands, any heavier is to bulky on the spool and almost impossible to break if you need to on stingrays or sharks. 80lb works for me because I can break it if I need too but its still strong enough than I can land fish over 100kg with some care. 

[kc687]

28 minutes ago, slowjigger said:

15 kg would be fine for bluefin (with 1.5 to 2 rod lengths of double). You could always change over the top shot depending on whether you are targeting kings or bluefin. 

That's a good idea! I might switch between 15kg for cooler months when I'm chasing longtails and go with 24kg for kings and keep around 500-600m of braid below either topshot weights. Thanks! 

[kc687]

11 minutes ago, JonD said:

I use the same 50lb mamoi diamond clear which breaks at 82lb, no idea why they call it 50lb. I use it straight through without leaders on most fish. Some of my outfits have 50m+ while others only 5-6m of the topshot. For me its more about handling the fish when they are close from the shore, rocks or boat. When Im up north I pick rocks where they gently slope into the water so I can slide fish onto the slope. Topshot any lighter and it can cut into my hands, any heavier is to bulky on the spool and almost impossible to break if you need to on stingrays or sharks. 80lb works for me because I can break it if I need too but its still strong enough than I can land fish over 100kg with some care. 

Legend! That makes total sense. In most of my regular spots the ledge will typically drop off nearly immediately so a gaff shot is often needed but I get what you mean and it sounds good. Do you mind sharing where you purchased your Momoi Diamond from? I've looked around a while back but no one in Aus seems to stock it on a regular basis and I don't really care about the IGFA rules since I fish for the thrill rather than the records. Thanks! 

[JonD]

27 minutes ago, kc687 said:

Legend! That makes total sense. In most of my regular spots the ledge will typically drop off nearly immediately so a gaff shot is often needed but I get what you mean and it sounds good. Do you mind sharing where you purchased your Momoi Diamond from? I've looked around a while back but no one in Aus seems to stock it on a regular basis and I don't really care about the IGFA rules since I fish for the thrill rather than the records. Thanks! 

Unfortunately they don't import the clear diamond so I buy 1000m spools from Melton tackle. There's no right or wrong, just preferences that people have, this works well for me.

Edited July 17, 2023 by JonD

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi kc687 have you considered a Shimano TLD 25?- For what you want to do they are fine and considerably less expensive than most of the other lever drag reels. They hold enough line, have a decent drag and aren't too heavy to hang onto for long periods.

15kg for kings in Sydney as a minimum- most fishers can't break 15kg through the rod. I spent close to 18yrs fishing for Kings off the Sydney rocks and used 15 as a minimum before going to 25kg (mono- 'Tortue') and although using different overhead reels over the years kept going back to an Alvey 651E5 with 25kg line- plenty of guys laughed at the idea of using that type of reel/set up as it is both heavy and 'unfashionable', however, my old crew caught tons of Kings up to 20kg on these reels combined with 8 and 9ft 9 wrap rods and landed the majority of fish that we hooked, washing a lot of them out without a gaff.It's a different style and more 'physical' .

We mainly fished our live bait deep (over 20ft) and close in to the edge. As you intend to fish for longtail's with it also it mightn't be as suitable for that type of thing- hence the suggestion of a TLD as a starting point without breaking the bank balance and getting a suitable type reel. 

Also we only used 25kg for leader as we were fishing over a 'clean' bottom and minimal 'undercut' edges

[kc687]

32 minutes ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi kc687 have you considered a Shimano TLD 25?- For what you want to do they are fine and considerably less expensive than most of the other lever drag reels. They hold enough line, have a decent drag and aren't too heavy to hang onto for long periods.

15kg for kings in Sydney as a minimum- most fishers can't break 15kg through the rod. I spent close to 18yrs fishing for Kings off the Sydney rocks and used 15 as a minimum before going to 25kg (mono- 'Tortue') and although using different overhead reels over the years kept going back to an Alvey 651E5 with 25kg line- plenty of guys laughed at the idea of using that type of reel/set up as it is both heavy and 'unfashionable', however, my old crew caught tons of Kings up to 20kg on these reels combined with 8 and 9ft 9 wrap rods and landed the majority of fish that we hooked, washing a lot of them out without a gaff.It's a different style and more 'physical' .

We mainly fished our live bait deep (over 20ft) and close in to the edge. As you intend to fish for longtail's with it also it mightn't be as suitable for that type of thing- hence the suggestion of a TLD as a starting point without breaking the bank balance and getting a suitable type reel. 

Also we only used 25kg for leader as we were fishing over a 'clean' bottom and minimal 'undercut' edges

Cheers wazatherfisherman! I've considered the TLD and it's probably the best bang for your buck overhead out there but it seems like they have quite low drag outputs relative to the others mentioned. I have had a feel of it in person too and I'm not a big fan of the handle if I'm being honest, the tiagra 20 in particular felt great with the large power handle but the standard rounded egg knob of the speedies and talicas were also comfortable. 
Thanks for the line recommendation too! I think I am now more set to have 15kg and 24kg mono rolls to be swapping the topshot based on the season and location, and keep 500-600m of braid below it to minimise the need to change the entire line system every year due to stretch and degradation in the mono. 

[slowjigger]

The Fin Nor Santiago is a nice reel. Very well built with a nice power handle, strong drag and 2 speed gearing.

[wazatherfisherman]

1 hour ago, kc687 said:

Cheers wazatherfisherman! I've considered the TLD and it's probably the best bang for your buck overhead out there but it seems like they have quite low drag outputs relative to the others mentioned. I have had a feel of it in person too and I'm not a big fan of the handle if I'm being honest, the tiagra 20 in particular felt great with the large power handle but the standard rounded egg knob of the speedies and talicas were also comfortable. 
Thanks for the line recommendation too! I think I am now more set to have 15kg and 24kg mono rolls to be swapping the topshot based on the season and location, and keep 500-600m of braid below it to minimise the need to change the entire line system every year due to stretch and degradation in the mono. 

No worries- just trying to save you some money as it's your first o/h - while I was an active rock hopper Tortue was the best line in regards to abrasion resistance, followed by Schneider and Weiss Perlon. If a Kingfish runs more than 150mtrs away it's lost! Like slowjigger said you need big capacity for Longtails.

Braid hadn't been invented in my day!

[Rebel]

@JonD  Sorry. Just rock fishing. Not into the big fish. Its bad enough trying to land a decent Snapper or a big Drummer.

Cheers.

[slowjigger]

23 hours ago, JonD said:

Unfortunately they don't import the clear diamond so I buy 1000m spools from Melton tackle. There's no right or wrong, just preferences that people have, this works well for me.

Some of the new copolymer lines like Nitlon Soft and Sufix Supreme are supposed to be very abrasion resistant as well as fine for their breaking strain.