Knots to hardbody lures video: snug knot, loop knot, clips or split rings

[DerekD]

Knots to hardbody lures video: snug knot, loop knot, clips or split rings?

This is a topic which comes up now and then for discussion on this forum. This gentleman did a video with underwater footage.

 

Edited January 28 by DerekD

[Green Hornet]

I cringe every time I see someone tie a lightish leader directly to a split ring. Too many sharp edges for my liking.

Personally, I like to remove the ring and go with a snap. When I’m feeling pedantic I crimp the catch down on the snap so there’s no possible way it can come undone and retie with a blood knot when swapping lures. I have boxes of lures with crimped snaps already attached. This is just when using hard bodies of course.

For my metal slugs and jigs, a small crane swivel to the ring gets me by.

[faker]

34 minutes ago, Green Hornet said:

I cringe every time I see someone tie a lightish leader directly to a split ring. Too many sharp edges for my liking.

Personally, I like to remove the ring and go with a snap. When I’m feeling pedantic I crimp the catch down on the snap so there’s no possible way it can come undone and retie with a blood knot when swapping lures. I have boxes of lures with crimped snaps already attached. This is just when using hard bodies of course.

For my metal slugs and jigs, a small crane swivel to the ring gets me by.

i don;t use hard bodies often enough unless the surface lures. i have a distinct feeling clips will mess with walking the dog. removing the split and loop knot or just directly tying may be better option. what are your thoughts?

 

[Green Hornet]

39 minutes ago, faker said:

i don;t use hard bodies often enough unless the surface lures. i have a distinct feeling clips will mess with walking the dog. removing the split and loop knot or just directly tying may be better option. what are your thoughts?

 

I always fish the lightest leaders I can get away with so I don’t like mono/fc straight to the lure simply because I haven’t found a loop knot that is strong enough to compare with a blood knot. Tying a clinch style knot directly to the tow ring retards the action of a lure, particularly those around 50mm and under.

 I always remove the split ring before adding a clip, therefore I’m not altering the nose weight enough to make any significant difference to a lure’s action.

[XD351]

Hardbodies: depends on the tow point , if it is made from wire ( nice smooth round cross section) I will tie on with a uni knot . If the tow point is stamped sheet metal I run a snap - I always remove any split rings on the tow point .

Metals , blade spinners ,metal blades/ vibes  ,  wobblers : I either remove any rings and use a snap swivel or fit a swivel to the ring - more often than not the first option. 

Soft plastics : tied on with a uni knot but occasionally I will run a worm hook and a small ball sinker captured in a loop knot - you can run a bigger loop ( say 50mm long ) with buoyant plastics like zman which lets the plastic  float off the bottom a little . 
 

I would liked to have seen if there was a difference in action with poppers , jerk shads and lipless crank baits.

 

 

[faker]

1 hour ago, Green Hornet said:

I always fish the lightest leaders I can get away with so I don’t like mono/fc straight to the lure simply because I haven’t found a loop knot that is strong enough to compare with a blood knot. Tying a clinch style knot directly to the tow ring retards the action of a lure, particularly those around 50mm and under.

 I always remove the split ring before adding a clip, therefore I’m not altering the nose weight enough to make any significant difference to a lure’s action.

Would there be a issue with me always using uni knot?

[big Neil]

2 hours ago, faker said:

i don;t use hard bodies often enough unless the surface lures. i have a distinct feeling clips will mess with walking the dog. removing the split and loop knot or just directly tying may be better option. what are your thoughts?

 

Split rings are a curse and should only be used to attach to clip. The clips I like are called Fastatch and they are really quick to change hardbodies with. I use the smallest size as it is rated about 27lb breaking strain. Bigger ones can be difficult to use because they are made from heavier wire. The only other option is the loop knot...definitely NOT tying the line to the lure tow point with a clinch or Uni knot.   bn

 

[faker]

2 minutes ago, big Neil said:

Split rings are a curse and should only be used to attach to clip. The clips I like are called Fastatch and they are really quick to change hardbodies with. I use the smallest size as it is rated about 27lb breaking strain. Bigger ones can be difficult to use because they are made from heavier wire. The only other option is the loop knot...definitely NOT tying the line to the lure tow point with a clinch or Uni knot.   bn

 

i will see if i can get some clips on surface lures but not sure what will happen

[Green Hornet]

38 minutes ago, faker said:

Would there be an issue with me always using uni knot?

I think it really depends on the lure. If you feel comfortable tying directly to a split ring, that’s your choice and if you remove the ring and tie directly to the tow point, expect some, or even full loss of action in the lure. @XD351 raises a good point about the construction method of the tow point and possible sharp edges.

Another method I’ve used is a uni knot direct to the tow point and left the loop part of the knot slightly open to aid in the action of the lure. I stopped doing it as even with a few extra turns in the knot, it eventually slid down tight and after opening it up a few times, weakened the knot significantly. Remember I said previously I use lighter leaders than most and every ounce of strength is critical.

[JustJames]

Thanks for that Derek, that was interesting viewing.

 

In today's episode....when they are sitting around thinking about fishing (instead of going out and fishing), fisherpersons overthink stuff.

 

In tomorrow's episode, how many angel shrimp can dance on the head of a fish hook....

[big Neil]

4 hours ago, Green Hornet said:

I think it really depends on the lure. If you feel comfortable tying directly to a split ring, that’s your choice and if you remove the ring and tie directly to the tow point, expect some, or even full loss of action in the lure. @XD351 raises a good point about the construction method of the tow point and possible sharp edges.

Another method I’ve used is a uni knot direct to the tow point and left the loop part of the knot slightly open to aid in the action of the lure. I stopped doing it as even with a few extra turns in the knot, it eventually slid down tight and after opening it up a few times, weakened the knot significantly. Remember I said previously I use lighter leaders than most and every ounce of strength is critical.

Yep, I agree GH. We always have to treat each lure as we find it, especially when using light leader material. My loop knot has a big loop in it and it stays where I set it. Of course, in the environment where I generally fish with sub-surface lures. I'm using 30 or 40 lb leader. One issue with the large loop is that it can increase the likelihood of snagging. I do find the fastatch

works very well with my big sub surface Murray Cod lures.   bn

[big Neil]

I think the video over generalises the difference between the methods of attaching the line to the lures. I think the best view for seeing what action is imparted on a lure is from above and directly in front. Of course, there are many types of lures. The ones depicted probably have very little side to side movement. Sub-surface lures that I use have great variance in the retrieve, both vertically AND horizontally. I feel that the impact of the different methods of attaching line to these types of lure has much more relevant impact. I used to test my combinations of line fastening to the different types of Native fish species lures and test them in the swimming pool. Believe me, the differences were really significant.

I will add that I may be a bit off topic because I am comparing very different types of fishing lures. I just think that generalisations of such a vastly broad-based topic may not do the subject justice.

bn

[Mike Sydney]

Cool video Derek! I suppose the question not covered is how much of a difference does extra wobble really make? 
Surely there’s a point where there’s too much action to entice a fish - or even to cause a missed strike as it’s harder to pin the current location? If you think about a loop knot for example @XD351 you mentioned 5cm - why stop there if a bigger loop gives more side to side - Why not a meter? 😉

@big Neil top down would be more interesting as this video really just shows they all produce vibration and similar enough actions side on. I generally agree more side to side movement is desirable on cranks - the ‘fear of missing out’ theory surely applies to lateral movements as well as pauses and speed - but to any significant degree? 

Thinking about whiting and a surface lure for example - whiting frequently miss my surface several times before a successful hit. I would theorise a smaller, tighter walk-the-dog would get more hookups than a wider one.

Edited January 29 by Mike Sydney

[XD351]

If you go too big the loop could catch up on the hooks when casting if you do it with a hard body lure that is  . I only do it on sp lures running  worm hook and a small ball sinker in the loop and it is not for action it is only to allow the zman to float up a bit more off the bottom . 

[big Neil]

11 hours ago, Mike Sydney said:

Cool video Derek! I suppose the question not covered is how much of a difference does extra wobble really make? 
Surely there’s a point where there’s too much action to entice a fish - or even to cause a missed strike as it’s harder to pin the current location? If you think about a loop knot for example @XD351 you mentioned 5cm - why stop there if a bigger loop gives more side to side - Why not a meter? 😉

@big Neil top down would be more interesting as this video really just shows they all produce vibration and similar enough actions side on. I generally agree more side to side movement is desirable on cranks - the ‘fear of missing out’ theory surely applies to lateral movements as well as pauses and speed - but to any significant degree? 

Thinking about whiting and a surface lure for example - whiting frequently miss my surface several times before a successful hit. I would theorise a smaller, tighter walk-the-dog would get more hookups than a wider one.

Thanks for the reply Mike Sydney  I imagine most fleeing fish would dart left/ right, up/down to avoid predators. As mentioned, I study different lure actions for the types of fishing I do and it never ceases to amaze me that many of the really radical action lures get chased down and hit regularly. Of course, my target species use this method as their primary method of feeding. I'm not sure if Whiting fit the same bill...I don't know enough about their feeding habits. I would love to see some video of lure action with fish hookups but it is so hard to capture.

I guess this topic is one that we all experience as we expand our fishing capabilities and broaden our horizons.

Cheers, bn

[Hill373737]

This is always a good topic for discussion and I put it in the category of one percenters, the little things you can do when fishing to improve your chance of hooking and landing a fish. 

Same as @big Neil, I've used the Fastach clips for many years on everything from 3lb leader to tiny HBs for bream through to 50lb leader on very big cod lures. I've only had one fail in all of that time and in hindsight, it was on a cod lure and the clip felt like it went on easily, usually its a bit of an arm wrestle so I should have checked it.

It got me thinking of other options as I won't tie leader to a split ring and I'm not a huge fan of tying loop knots in heavy leader. I've put a solid ring on the split ring of my cod HBs and topwater lures and tie directly to that with a uni knot. Early days, it seems to work well and doesn't impact the action, but they are big lures so its not a solution for a jackal Chubby or similar.

As an aside, I've probably found a dozen lures hanging in snags since moving to Tamworth, mostly in winter when the water is too cold for a fisho walking the bank to go for a swim and I'm amazed at the number that have braid tied directly to a split ring or attached using a massive swivel clip. 

[Hill373737]

23 hours ago, faker said:

i don;t use hard bodies often enough unless the surface lures. i have a distinct feeling clips will mess with walking the dog. removing the split and loop knot or just directly tying may be better option. what are your thoughts?

 

I don't know if there is any science behind this but I've always tied a walk the dog style lure with a loop but use a uni knot to attach a popper, including very small ones I'd throw at bream.

[DerekD]

Hi all,

I thought there were some very good comments in relation to this article so I tracked down the creator of the video and sent him the link to this topic. He took the time to come back with the following response.

That was fun to read all of the discussion. Thanks for sharing. Next time I make a similar video, I'll have to consider multiple viewing angles to capture movement in all directions. I've also heard suggestions to include different types of lures. There are so many combinations of lures, knots, and lines/leaders, it may have to be broken into several videos!

Sounds like there may be some follow up videos incorporating the Raiders observations.

[big Neil]

4 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi all,

I thought there were some very good comments in relation to this article so I tracked down the creator of the video and sent him the link to this topic. He took the time to come back with the following response.

That was fun to read all of the discussion. Thanks for sharing. Next time I make a similar video, I'll have to consider multiple viewing angles to capture movement in all directions. I've also heard suggestions to include different types of lures. There are so many combinations of lures, knots, and lines/leaders, it may have to be broken into several videos!

Sounds like there may be some follow up videos incorporating the Raiders observations.

Good onya Derek and also the creator of the initial video. I know that you are an intelligent, caring person Derek but what you have done will (most likely) benefit EVERYBODY. If it comes to fruition, I'm sure the original video maker will produce a video that will be extremely popular with his channel followers, as well as a lot of people on this forum. To me that has to be a win/win situation.

Top stuff, bn

Edited January 30 by big Neil
small correction

[AlbertW]

Thanks for the vid Derek! The guy that made the video has a lot of tutorials on his page and I always seem to find one of his when I'm doing some research.

[mrsswordfisherman]

10 hours ago, DerekD said:

Hi all,

I thought there were some very good comments in relation to this article so I tracked down the creator of the video and sent him the link to this topic. He took the time to come back with the following response.

That was fun to read all of the discussion. Thanks for sharing. Next time I make a similar video, I'll have to consider multiple viewing angles to capture movement in all directions. I've also heard suggestions to include different types of lures. There are so many combinations of lures, knots, and lines/leaders, it may have to be broken into several videos!

Sounds like there may be some follow up videos incorporating the Raiders observations.

@DerekD I hope the video creator joins fishraider and joins in on the conversations 👏