Trying to understand swell

[faker]

Hi All I am trying to understand how swells operate. if my ledge is facing eastward am i sheltered? obviously a eastward/ South east swell is a no go depending on height.

 

another example i can think of is this where i am on a southern/northern edge but a easterly swell?

 

 

Obviously i personally consider northern curl curl =death trap and wouldn't touch that ledge with a 20 foot poll as there is no escape routes even if you see big wave coming and the below ledge looks way more better as there are escape routes

 

 

I am seeing if i have proper understanding before i consider asking alex belissimo for a charter or get some boots on ground and see what its like there. If only there was a book on with some description and guidance

[noelm]

The swell is nearly always from the east or south east (with exceptions) so anywhere that forms a bay type shape will have sheltered sides. Even if the swell is low, there is always the chance of a bigger group of waves (called a set) coming through, always have a good place to retreat to in an instant (I am not a firm believer in “freak waves”) swell is not consistent in every set, some are smaller, some significantly bigger. Any east or south facing platform is generally open to swell, as an example, Bass Point is quite long (in fact it’s called “Long Point”) and the northern side often has protected spots even in big swell, whereas the southern side is sloped into deep water and waves will just roll up the slope without any breaking white water, taking you and your gear with it……

[Yowie]

The most dangerous sport in Australia is rock fishing, more people killed than in any other sport.

When preparing for a bit of rock fishing in a particular location, study that area like you have posted. Also study it from the rocks itself (keeping back) to see where the swell is coming from, where the wash goes (considering that if you get washed in, where you will end up after being scraped over the rocks, barnacles, etc)

Bear in mind that you will study these locations, and observe the waves at different heights. Also allow for the occasional wave to be higher than what you see, and this wave will have plenty of power to it when it does arrive. Best to have a line of retreat for the big wave, where you can escape and shelter without getting washed in. A bigger than average wave might come through every hour or much less.

Not all waves will be from the same direction, sometimes 2 different swells. There are also smaller swells caused by wind waves closer together than the larger swell waves.

Also consider that swell waves will curl around a rocky point, and can hit you side on if you are not paying attention.

[Burger]

Both Yowie and Nolem offer good advice!

Swell wraps around headlands depending on the direction its coming from and will break on any ledge on an angle. The intensity drops as it wraps, but it will still impact the ledge.

So your Easterly ledge will still get swell from ALL directions.

I am in agreement with nolem, in that I am not a believer in 'freak waves'.  Swell sets may/do join each other especially when swells are coming from multiple directions resulting in a larger set.

There may also be a wind swell on top of a base swell directions.

When rockfishing you need to be watching the swell way out to sea . . eg 200, 300, 400m not just at the waves about to hit your ledge. That way you can see larger waves in time to make a move.

If I was you I'd be starting off with a guide such as Alex B, he will give you a good starting point. Most importantly, it will happen safely!

[faker]

56 minutes ago, Yowie said:

The most dangerous sport in Australia is rock fishing, more people killed than in any other sport.

When preparing for a bit of rock fishing in a particular location, study that area like you have posted. Also study it from the rocks itself (keeping back) to see where the swell is coming from, where the wash goes (considering that if you get washed in, where you will end up after being scraped over the rocks, barnacles, etc)

Bear in mind that you will study these locations, and observe the waves at different heights. Also allow for the occasional wave to be higher than what you see, and this wave will have plenty of power to it when it does arrive. Best to have a line of retreat for the big wave, where you can escape and shelter without getting washed in. A bigger than average wave might come through every hour or much less.

Not all waves will be from the same direction, sometimes 2 different swells. There are also smaller swells caused by wind waves closer together than the larger swell waves.

Also consider that swell waves will curl around a rocky point, and can hit you side on if you are not paying attention.

 

1 hour ago, noelm said:

The swell is nearly always from the east or south east (with exceptions) so anywhere that forms a bay type shape will have sheltered sides. Even if the swell is low, there is always the chance of a bigger group of waves (called a set) coming through, always have a good place to retreat to in an instant (I am not a firm believer in “freak waves”) swell is not consistent in every set, some are smaller, some significantly bigger. Any east or south facing platform is generally open to swell, as an example, Bass Point is quite long (in fact it’s called “Long Point”) and the northern side often has protected spots even in big swell, whereas the southern side is sloped into deep water and waves will just roll up the slope without any breaking white water, taking you and your gear with it……

Thanks for advice

[Steve0]

Swell can come from different directions. Imagine throwing two rocks of different size into a still pond. If the rocks are at different angles to where you stand, you'll get waves crossing when they arrive at your feet. Depending where you stand, size will vary. If the rocks are directly in line, waves of different height and length head your way. Crests may arrive separated or together. The ocean is far more complex that two rocks tossed into a still pond. Crests that meet where you fish may be substantially higher than regular waves. You need to watch the sets for a long time and understand whether the tide is rising or falling (a bit like a surfer waiting for the right wave,  we wait for the wrong wave).  Waves can change directions around projections.

If water close to shore is relatively shallow, large waves are more easily seen building.  If water near shore is deep, the big ones seem to come out of nowhere. You need far more margin for error when you are not getting early, clear warning of wave size. 

Here's the wave forecast web page. Take it as an indication, only. Drag two finger to move the map (look for the 'refresh' button). I always like to see blue arrows, fairly much parallel. At times, one end of a beach (and adjacent rocks) may be calmer than another.

[zmk1962]

@Burger mentioned “wind swell” on top of base swell. I think it’s important to add to that point…The rule of thumb for wind and swell is you get 1m of swell for every 10kts of wind, where the wind has been been blowing across the ocean for quite some distance. So a 20kt south easter will bring up a 2m SE swell on top of what ever else (tide, swell etc) is going on. So look at the wind speed and how long it’s been blowing in that direction as well. 
cheers Zoran 

[riveRecon]

We have a total wave height calculation in the Deckee App to give you actual wave heights vs swell heights. We’ve worked with the BOM in Australia and NOAA in the United States on this first version. It gives you significant height but also rogue wave height. Rogue waves of that height happen on average three times a day. The functionality doesn’t take into account direction to the coast yet. Our testing is proving quite accurate for exposed waters though. Future upgrades will take into account direction, coast angle and wind direction. All the above advice is spot on, the Deckee App - Open Water Risk Forecast will help you put some meaning into wave height considering swell and wind. I hope that helps.

[EnOz43]

Another important factor when rock fishing is wave period. There is a big difference between 1.5m swell with 5 second period and 1.5m swell with 15 second period. Long-period swell accumulates energy and travels faster resulting in larger swell when it comes to average wave height.

Edited February 22 by EnOz43

[Blackfish]

10 hours ago, EnOz43 said:

Another important factor when rock fishing is wave period. There is a big difference between 1.5m swell with 5 second period and 1.5m swell with 15 second period. Long-period swell accumulates energy and travels faster resulting in larger swell when it comes to average wave height.

A very, very important part of the equation.  Good job bringing this up.

[noelm]

I guess to sum up, there is no hard and fast rules about swell, on any day you could encounter a freak/rogue wave that will catch you out. Being alert and having a plan and relevant safety gear is about as good as it gets. A classic example, many years ago while fishing for Bream right in close to “the wreck” at Bass Point, we had been fishing there for over an hour in very shallow water, then “out of nowhere” a big wave broke right in front of the boat, wet us both and half filled the boat with water, why/how? Freak/rogue wave? Nah, as I said, don’t really go for that stuff, it was just a bigger “set” been surfing for long enough to know it just happens……

[faker]

1 hour ago, noelm said:

I guess to sum up, there is no hard and fast rules about swell, on any day you could encounter a freak/rogue wave that will catch you out. Being alert and having a plan and relevant safety gear is about as good as it gets. A classic example, many years ago while fishing for Bream right in close to “the wreck” at Bass Point, we had been fishing there for over an hour in very shallow water, then “out of nowhere” a big wave broke right in front of the boat, wet us both and half filled the boat with water, why/how? Freak/rogue wave? Nah, as I said, don’t really go for that stuff, it was just a bigger “set” been surfing for long enough to know it just happens……

of course. when i was at avoca i also went to skillion near terrigal and saw waves were too high for my comfort despite a high rock i can happily stay dry in and no one was there. and just went and fished near the boats. It was only later that locals turned up to fish it that i started looking up the conditions why they are fishing there and seeking advice.

I always take additional safety measures like fish on lowering tide. But i believe there are certain gaps in my knowledge

Edited February 22 by faker

[Steve0]

You might try looking at some Youtube videos that people have posted,  showing others in trouble with waves while rock fishing (and generally blaming 'freak wave' instead of 'bad decision'). Start with this one.

IMO, he broke a lot safety advice. The worst is debatable but, fishing in a location without good personal view of the incoming swell was the start to his problems. 

The rock was obviously wet towards at the top before he was caught by larger waves, which is a sure sign of potential trouble and the rock to the right acts as a ramp for the swell to climb.

His gear was too close to the water (e.g. what happens when you are focused on re-tying terminal tackle or unpicking a wind knot).

He didn't seriously heed the warnings called out by his mate and seems to have no idea the main danger is behind him.

Maybe fishing to the right would have been safer, where he could see the swell, but those wet spots should have been enough warning to sit, watch and learn.

Obviously he is not wearing a jacket. A life jacket is not an accident prevention device. It only helps after you make a bad decision, at which time you are both injured by tumbling across rocks and barnacles and in the water. It's only purpose is when you fall short on caution.

Media like to publish  stories about rogue waves causing rock fishing deaths when the main cause is lack of safety skills and experience.

 

[faker]

3 hours ago, Steve0 said:

You might try looking at some Youtube videos that people have posted,  showing others in trouble with waves while rock fishing (and generally blaming 'freak wave' instead of 'bad decision'). Start with this one.

IMO, he broke a lot safety advice. The worst is debatable but, fishing in a location without good personal view of the incoming swell was the start to his problems. 

The rock was obviously wet towards at the top before he was caught by larger waves, which is a sure sign of potential trouble and the rock to the right acts as a ramp for the swell to climb.

His gear was too close to the water (e.g. what happens when you are focused on re-tying terminal tackle or unpicking a wind knot).

He didn't seriously heed the warnings called out by his mate and seems to have no idea the main danger is behind him.

Maybe fishing to the right would have been safer, where he could see the swell, but those wet spots should have been enough warning to sit, watch and learn.

Obviously he is not wearing a jacket. A life jacket is not an accident prevention device. It only helps after you make a bad decision, at which time you are both injured by tumbling across rocks and barnacles and in the water. It's only purpose is when you fall short on caution.

Media like to publish  stories about rogue waves causing rock fishing deaths when the main cause is lack of safety skills and experience.

 

I don't even know why he fished in those conditions. Once conditions changed you make the call to bail.

[noelm]

That’s a classic case of sloped rocks and deep water, there is no freak wave involved…..the swell just rises in the deep, rolls up the rocks and takes everything with it. unlike a shallow reef where there is breaking white water to “warn” you.

Edited February 23 by noelm

[Steve0]

23 minutes ago, noelm said:

That’s a classic case of sloped rocks and deep water, there is no freak wave involved…..the swell just rises in the deep, rolls up the rocks and takes everything with it. unlike a shallow reef where there is breaking white water to “warn” you.

 I went in here looking for a spot years ago.

There was a chance where rocks shear to the left creating a ledge overlooking a location that looked good for Drummer, but standing on that slope and not looking directly at the swell scared me, even in fairly calm conditions.

Nice to look at so, not a wasted walk.

 

Edited February 23 by Steve0

[Yowie]

Just have to look at the amount of white frothy water around the area. Observations before fishing would tell you that it would be dicey, with some decent waves to be rolling in.

[Little_Flatty]

The whole ‘freak wave’ thing is a bit like calling a car crash an ‘accident’. The word ‘accident’ implies there is no fault, but the reality is that someone always has made an incorrect call, either through not paying attention or not being adequately prepared. So many rock fishing drownings  could have been prevented if people just took some basic precautions and pulled the pin when they should.

[Yowie]

19 minutes ago, Little_Flatty said:

a bit like calling a car crash an ‘accident’. 

We used to call it a "dead heat."  Both hit the same spot at the same time.

[Koalaboi]

Try fishing Long Reef.

You have every swell direction covered at this spot and in time, you will work out how different swells hit rock platforms which will help you understand other spots.

KB

[faker]

1 hour ago, Koalaboi said:

Try fishing Long Reef.

You have every swell direction covered at this spot and in time, you will work out how different swells hit rock platforms which will help you understand other spots.

KB

How is bottom like at long reef?

[Koalaboi]

Depends on what part of the reef you are fishing. I fished there quite a lot in the 1970’s and 80s mostly fishing for blackfish and bream etc.  Fishing the front needs a pretty low swell but we would usually fish on the platform as the tide came up in areas that were basiclly dry at low tide. So not too snaggy. 

A light spinning rod and little if no lead using cunjevoi, cabbage and luderick gut for bait.

There's also pigs, snapper and big tailor. It will take a while to suss out all the potential spots. Standing at the top of the headland you cansee fish feeding on the platform.

KB