First catch on the setup!

[Birdy]

Managed to slip in a fishing session today, used the setup for the first time and loved it! I also managed to catch a lil fishy as well as getting bricked by something solid a little while later and had to jump in the water to retrieve my float🤣

I struggled to cast the Alvey 500 without using side cast I don't know how to hold the reel properly and still have a lot to learn.

Is it even possible to Wallis cast on this reel? Does it need to be a super fast spinning centrepin reel to perform it?

2 problems I experienced when trying to Wallis cast was 1) The line was wrapping around the back metal plate 2) The line wasn't peeling off the reel enough to throw the float far.

Ty @XD351

Edited February 29 by Birdy

[lhan]

Nice work mate! Nothing beats the feeling when you catch the first one using the new gear!

[XD351]

You can adjust the spool tension by loosening the knob in the middle of the spool . You will find it difficult to get that big heavy spool spinning enough to cast it like a centre pin - just cast it like a sidecast and you will be fine . 

[faker]

1 hour ago, Birdy said:

Managed to slip in a fishing session today, used the setup for the first time and loved it! I also managed to catch a lil fishy as well as getting bricked by something solid a little while later and had to jump in the water to retrieve my float🤣

I struggled to cast the Alvey 500 without using side cast I don't know how to hold the reel properly and still have a lot to learn.

Is it even possible to Wallis cast on this reel? Does it need to be a super fast spinning centrepin reel to perform it?

2 problems I experienced when trying to Wallis cast was 1) The line was wrapping around the back metal plate 2) The line wasn't peeling off the reel enough to throw the float far.

Ty @XD351

Nice. Is that a drummer or a luderick?

[wazatherfisherman]

31 minutes ago, faker said:

Nice. Is that a drummer or a luderick?

Black Drummer but the official name is Rock Blackfish. Harder to land than Kingfish in my opinion. 

[wazatherfisherman]

Nice species to christen the new outfit on Birdy! Like XD351 says the spool is too heavy for centrepin style casting. How long is your rod, how deep do you normally fish and is the float fixed or running?

[Birdy]

1 hour ago, XD351 said:

You can adjust the spool tension by loosening the knob in the middle of the spool . You will find it difficult to get that big heavy spool spinning enough to cast it like a centre pin - just cast it like a sidecast and you will be fine . 

Okie awesome, the reel felt so good though, I set the clicker to be on and love listening to it when reeling 😍💜 thanks heaps for this beauty 👊

[Little_Flatty]

No better way to thank @XD351 than to catch a fish with his gift and report on it.

Well done!

[Birdy]

38 minutes ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Nice species to christen the new outfit on Birdy! Like XD351 says the spool is too heavy for centrepin style casting. How long is your rod, how deep do you normally fish and is the float fixed or running?

I thought maybe I was just really bad at centrepin style casting or something 🤣 the rod is a little over 11 feet. I've been fishing with a running float, adjusting it often, should I find the depth that the float goes sideways (the bottom) and bring the float stopped down about half a metre? 

[Birdy]

1 hour ago, faker said:

Nice. Is that a drummer or a luderick?

I think the major difference between lud and pig (black drummer) is that the ludericks have distinct stripes, don't quote me on that hahahah. This one didn't have stripes 😂👌

[wazatherfisherman]

3 minutes ago, Birdy said:

I thought maybe I was just really bad at centrepin style casting or something 🤣 the rod is a little over 11 feet. I've been fishing with a running float, adjusting it often, should I find the depth that the float goes sideways (the bottom) and bring the float stopped down about half a metre? 

Hi Birdy yes- if you're after Luderick and the water is deep, they are usually found about 9-12ft under the surface. If fishing shallower locations obviously less. Fixed float is usually a better option when fishing the ocean as you have direct contact. Reason I asked was more about repeated casting with the sidecast reel- if you're fishing a depth that's less than the length of your rod it pays to have a swivel above the float where possible. Liken it to pulling the garden hose off from the side of it's retainer- it twists, same for your line. So when fishing shallower than a rod length you can use the swivel above

[XD351]

Nice pig mate ! The old Snyder has caught a few of them I can tell you !
Where the alvey will come into its own is after you have finished your session on luderick ( using a centre pin )you can swap reels and fish unweighted or very lightly weighted baits for pigs and bream in the washes . The ability to get a light bait out  using the side cast feature and the bigger diameter spool makes the alvey superior to the centre pin for this style of fishing . I would still look at getting a centre pin , personally I wouldn’t worry too much about the nostalgia of using an old steelite or Avon - they won’t make you a better angler or catch you more fish and there is a downside with bakelite reels - it gets brittle with age so you have to be careful not to knock it around too much - the Avon doesn’t have this problem but with it you need to look for corrosion issues. 
There are a few blackfish/ luderick pages or groups on facebook, sometimes reels come up on them for sale .

Edited February 29 by XD351

[big Neil]

Good thread this one. Lots of questions, good answers and some honest commentary re the difficulties encountered float fishing with a cetrepin reel. Good suggestion from Waza regarding the use of the swivel if circumstances permit.

Well done XD351 for your generosity. Never heard of the "Wallis cast", guess I will have to look that one up to broaden my knowledge regarding Luderick fishing.

Cheers, bn

[Robbo from Sydney]

In the 1970's I used to fish a lot for luderick around Little Bay using a 1 piece 3 wrap fiberglass rod and a 5inch Cedar spool Alvey sidecast. It was a deadly combination for them as I could use a very small light float and fish 12 foot deep without any issues.

I still have both and am looking to find someone who can convert the rod to a 2 piece to make transport possible for me. I might then hit up the Harbour for a bit of fun.

 

 

[Birdy]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:30 PM, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Birdy yes- if you're after Luderick and the water is deep, they are usually found about 9-12ft under the surface. If fishing shallower locations obviously less. Fixed float is usually a better option when fishing the ocean as you have direct contact. Reason I asked was more about repeated casting with the sidecast reel- if you're fishing a depth that's less than the length of your rod it pays to have a swivel above the float where possible. Liken it to pulling the garden hose off from the side of it's retainer- it twists, same for your line. So when fishing shallower than a rod length you can use the swivel above

This info is great, I feel like the depth is super close to the length of the rod, I'll give fixed float a go and report back. Do I have my running float in-between 2 swivels super tightly (acts as a fixed float) or just use a dedicated fixed float? 

[Birdy]

On 3/1/2024 at 3:01 AM, XD351 said:

Nice pig mate ! The old Snyder has caught a few of them I can tell you !
Where the alvey will come into its own is after you have finished your session on luderick ( using a centre pin )you can swap reels and fish unweighted or very lightly weighted baits for pigs and bream in the washes . The ability to get a light bait out  using the side cast feature and the bigger diameter spool makes the alvey superior to the centre pin for this style of fishing . I would still look at getting a centre pin , personally I wouldn’t worry too much about the nostalgia of using an old steelite or Avon - they won’t make you a better angler or catch you more fish and there is a downside with bakelite reels - it gets brittle with age so you have to be careful not to knock it around too much - the Avon doesn’t have this problem but with it you need to look for corrosion issues. 
There are a few blackfish/ luderick pages or groups on facebook, sometimes reels come up on them for sale .

Thanks , every fish I catch on this setup, it brings you Goodluck for your next flick 😂I think down the line I'll look into buying a centrepin but for now I'm loving this reel. I bought a 40 dollar steelite for my gf (she's a better fisho than me hahaha). I'm scared for her as the reel doesn't spin as well as newer centrepins, will she have to learn how to Wallis cast? 

[wazatherfisherman]

1 hour ago, Birdy said:

This info is great, I feel like the depth is super close to the length of the rod, I'll give fixed float a go and report back. Do I have my running float in-between 2 swivels super tightly (acts as a fixed float) or just use a dedicated fixed float? 

Hi mate, the swivel above is purely for line twist- no other reason. If you need to cast any distance with it then maybe a running float will assist, however, as most deeper water locations throughout the eastern suburbs don't really require distance casts as the fish are in greatest numbers (usually) towards the back of the wash. Reason being it's where naturally broken off cabbage has sunk down to the 9-12ft depths where the fish seem 'happiest'. This of course is also both location and sea condition dependant, but generally speaking, wherever the green growth has naturally sunk around that depth, the fish will be in bigger numbers and feeding.

Although the Steelite's are a great old reel and function as required, they are more difficult to cast because they're heavier spooled. There are plenty of cheap alloy 'pins' available these days, that are miles easier to cast. One thing you could do with the Steelite is wipe all the grease of the spindle and replace it with thinner oil like sewing machine or gun oil, which will get it turning more freely, aiding in easier casting.

[Birdy]

13 minutes ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi mate, the swivel above is purely for line twist- no other reason. If you need to cast any distance with it then maybe a running float will assist, however, as most deeper water locations throughout the eastern suburbs don't really require distance casts as the fish are in greatest numbers (usually) towards the back of the wash. Reason being it's where naturally broken off cabbage has sunk down to the 9-12ft depths where the fish seem 'happiest'. This of course is also both location and sea condition dependant, but generally speaking, wherever the green growth has naturally sunk around that depth, the fish will be in bigger numbers and feeding.

Although the Steelite's are a great old reel and function as required, they are more difficult to cast because they're heavier spooled. There are plenty of cheap alloy 'pins' available these days, that are miles easier to cast. One thing you could do with the Steelite is wipe all the grease of the spindle and replace it with thinner oil like sewing machine or gun oil, which will get it turning more freely, aiding in easier casting.

I definitely think a fixed float can do the trick, its not like the depth is changing too drastically at my main spot. So the white wash that hits the rocks, the back end of that white wash, is where I should cast? I regreased the steelite already but still doesnt seem to be that quick, ill try the oil and see how much faster it can spin. This advice is amazing, keen to go out again and try it out.

[wazatherfisherman]

In most areas there's little need to cast very far as the float carries the bait naturally via the wash and tide dependant, the fish will be wherever the food is at roughly the above mentioned depth. Towards the highest stages of the tide- particularly on reasonably calm days- the fish often move in quite close to access growth themselves. Provided there is some wash for 'cover', it isn't unusual to have them feeding almost on the edges at full tide, but as this is also the domain of other species like Drummer, Cale's, Sweep, Surgeons etc, fishing for them a little further out often sees primarily Luderick and fewer of the 'unwanted' fish.

Wherever you fish, maintain a careful watch on where you think your burley is going and try to imagine how far out it would get before it's sunk down to the 9-12ft range, this is where you want your bait. Once you're in that sort of depth range, from the ocean rocks, the fish won't mind a couple of feet of difference in depth, so there really isn't much need to change depth too often. It's all about a naturally presented bait floating amongst other baits (your burley) Luderick eat plenty of cabbage in a feeding session.

Any other questions you have, feel free to ask- there's almost always great advice on the forum from someone with experience.

[Birdy]

3 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

In most areas there's little need to cast very far as the float carries the bait naturally via the wash and tide dependant, the fish will be wherever the food is at roughly the above mentioned depth. Towards the highest stages of the tide- particularly on reasonably calm days- the fish often move in quite close to access growth themselves. Provided there is some wash for 'cover', it isn't unusual to have them feeding almost on the edges at full tide, but as this is also the domain of other species like Drummer, Cale's, Sweep, Surgeons etc, fishing for them a little further out often sees primarily Luderick and fewer of the 'unwanted' fish.

Wherever you fish, maintain a careful watch on where you think your burley is going and try to imagine how far out it would get before it's sunk down to the 9-12ft range, this is where you want your bait. Once you're in that sort of depth range, from the ocean rocks, the fish won't mind a couple of feet of difference in depth, so there really isn't much need to change depth too often. It's all about a naturally presented bait floating amongst other baits (your burley) Luderick eat plenty of cabbage in a feeding session.

Any other questions you have, feel free to ask- there's almost always great advice on the forum from someone with experience.

This is like the golden recipe! Thankyou heaps for all of this information, honestly so damn good. Keen to report back to you on some of my sessions in the future! Are you still fishing luds these days? It would be cool to naturally bump into ya on a fishing session one day. 👊👌

[wazatherfisherman]

50 minutes ago, Birdy said:

This is like the golden recipe! Thankyou heaps for all of this information, honestly so damn good. Keen to report back to you on some of my sessions in the future! Are you still fishing luds these days? It would be cool to naturally bump into ya on a fishing session one day. 👊👌

Still fish for them at times, but my rock hopping days are long over due to a chronic leg condition. Fished the Dover Heights area for about 22years, much of the time catching Luderick.

There are some good posts and articles on the site in regards to Luderick and plenty of folk here to answer any questions you might have on the subject

[Steve0]

A loop cast may work for you  (video should start at 43 seconds, which skips Wallis cast method).  Line will come off straight, so no twisted line due to side-casting.

[Koalaboi]

Hi, 

A couple of tips to help with your casting:

1. Make sure your reel is well lubricated with a light oil or even just WD40

2. When you go to cast, bring your rod back over your shoulder to load it and on bringing the rod forward, release the spool earlier than you would when casting a sidecast or threadline reel…it makes a huge difference. It will take a bit of practice to get the timing right but is worth the effort.

3. Just before casting, always check that your line is not behind the reel mount, between the spool and the backing plate of the reel or wound around the tip of your rod. After a while you will perform these checks automatically.

TBH, have a look around for a Steelite blackfish reel. They work a treat and are much lighter than the old Alvey you show in your picture. You can often find them at local markets for $5-10. I have tried numerous centrepins over 50 years of fishing for luderick and have come back to the Steelite and love it. If you find one, check that the spool spins freely, that the handles spin freely,that the ratchet works and that there is little wobble in the spool. Seized reels are often easy to free up with lots of WD40 sprayed on them and left in a plastic bag for day or two before gently working them loose.

Tight lines,

KB

Edited March 2 by Koalaboi

[Steve0]

1 hour ago, Koalaboi said:

Hi, 

A couple of tips to help with your casting:

1. Make sure your reel is well lubricated with a light oil or even just WD40

 

Must of us associate WD40 with WD-40 Multi-use, which is not a lubricant. From their website:

Quote

How was WD‑40® Multi-Use Product invented?

It was invented when a small company call Rocket Chemical Company set out to create a line of rust prevention solvents and degreasers for use in the Aerospace industry.

 The brand WD-40 does create spray lubricants and other products, including silicone spray mentioned next.

Silicone sprays are dry lubricants (good for backpack zippers of those who walk beaches) and should work for a steelite, but I imagine sewing machine oil may be better for corrosion protection in situations when you don't get fine sand infiltrating parts and sticking in oil/grease.

Silicone spray degrades monofilament. Not sure about Flouro or braid. So, reel off, out of the way then spray.

Hardware stores and auto parts places will stock a variety. 

[Koalaboi]

Hi Stevo,

Thanks for the thoughtful and well researched information.

As you say below WD40 is not necessarily a lubricant. My Steelite reel is a centrepin and when you disassemble the reel it spins solely on a sharp point. In this case a lubricant such as you would use for a ball bearing style of centrepin reel does not reely have much effect (pun intended).. I find the general purpose WD40 works a treat and can recommend that after 50 years of using Steelite reels. I do put marine grease on the ratchet assembly, and normal machine oil in the handle axels, (but if I don't have any to hand, a spray of WD40 works ok).

3 hours ago, Steve0 said:

Must of us associate WD40 with WD-40 Multi-use, which is not a lubricant. From their website:

 The brand WD-40 does create spray lubricants and other products, including silicone spray mentioned next.

Silicone sprays are dry lubricants (good for backpack zippers of those who walk beaches) and should work for a steelite, but I imagine sewing machine oil may be better for corrosion protection in situations when you don't get fine sand infiltrating parts and sticking in oil/grease.

Silicone spray degrades monofilament. Not sure about Flouro or braid. So, reel off, out of the way then spray.

Hardware stores and auto parts places will stock a variety. 

Thanks again for your interest.

KB