zmk1962

.... hmmmm let me think about that 🤔 😜 Cheers Z

Thanks Jason. I think Bertie is a 25 - I have not had the pleasure to crew it as yet - its a relatively new acquisition for Gil ... probs best to ask @Gilbur All I know is from what they told me they had a cruisey run back up to woy woy with the southerly tail wind sipping tea, wine and other beverages ... but it may just be fisho tales for all I know. Regarding sinker traces - after the last trip where I lost a fair bit of braid and the deep drop rigs - I switched up to 3m 30lb sinker traces and managed to lose sinkers but no other gear. Cheers Z

A ride like that is a total workout .. it closed all the exercise rings on my Apple watch !!! We try to stay fit and both came up pretty good the next day surprisingly. However, today I removed the extra swivel that came with the new boat seats i recently installed as at one stage Maria thought she was a battling top. Cheers Z

Yes. It was very very good on the chew. Now hoping for more on subsequent trips. Cheers Zoran

Great report. Top Kings. Congrats. cheers Zoran

Thanks KC. Means a lot coming from you mate. Cheers Zoran

What a top first report... so happy for you and your young one.... Cheers Zoran

Hey Raiders, I've posted a Fishing Report on our Thursday trip to Browns where we landed two Ocean Perch... so I'd thought I'd post how we prepared one of them for Friday dinner. Pictures speak a thousand words ... so here they are ... with the recipe and method following the pictures. Recipe and Method: FISH: 1 x clean ocean perch, scour deep slices to the back bone on both sides, roll through mixture of four/salt/white ground pepper. I remove the wings and fry alongside, its just easier to manage in the wok. Wok fry the fish with a couple of whole garlic cloves thrown in, until golden brown and fins are crispy. GARNISH: Slice carrots, red and green capsicum and shallots and lightly stir fry. MARINADE: this is the ratio ... make quantity to suit 2 tsp Palm sugar 2 tsp Soy sauce 2 tsp Sesame oil 1/2 Chili 1/2 Garlic 1/2 Lime juice 1/4 Kaffir lime leaf 1 tsp fish sauce Chopped fresh coriander. METHOD: Fry the fish and plate. Place garnish over fish and drizzle marinade and chopped coriander to taste. .... The ocean perch has a medium to firm sweet white flaky flesh. It is yummo delish. Maria described it as lobster - like. .... PS- We contemplated a side of steamed rice - but I love me airfried chippies and .... hehehe ! Cheers Zoran

Hey Raiders, After the recent rain and rough seas earlier in the week, Maria and I were glad to see the offshore conditions forecast for Wednesday, Thursday and Friday looked promising for a possible trip out wide to Browns. I had also been chatting to my long time buddies @Fishingwazza2019 and @Gilbur who had been monitoring the weather and a plan was hatched that they would take Gil's Bertram down from Woy Woy and we would rendezvous at Browns 930am. BTW, Gil was the man that taught me the ropes on deep dropping Browns many many years ago...firstly on his boat and then on mine. So this trip felt special. Well Wednesday deteriorated and was a no go, but Thursday was holding up..... Come Wednesday night .... Thursday was touch and go ... but there was a morning window back-ended by a southerly change in the afternoon ... .quick chat with Gil and Wazza and the trip was confirmed on... It was a cold morning in Sydney, with lots of fog, so we timed our trip to arrive at Roseville boat ramp after first light to give us better visibility heading out (rower alert 😳). Here's Maria (three layers warm) - ".... it's fishin' not fashion ! " she says. Well the trip out to Brown's was uneventful, quite a few potholes with conditions and chop pretty much as forecast ... we got there just on 930am to find Browns a calm sea again as forecast.... saw 4 boats and the first boat we came across being the fellow raiders in the Bertie who had arrived 5min before us. Yet to start their first drift. Anyway, we quickly set up the electrics and bait (salted pillies and frozen squid). Noted water temp was 19C and that the GPS indicated there was a N-S 1-2km current running, so we headed to the North mark to drift the east side, while Gil and Wazza drifted the west side. First drift nothing on both boats. Second drift down the middle, Maria lost her sinker, then I lost mine (long sinker traces work - lost sinkers but no lost rigs so far). We continued different drifts across the mount for small picker bites on the baits, I also gave slow jigging a go ... but no fish. We could see the other boats around us were working hard criss crossing the drifts but no sign of gems or blue-eye. Finally around 1230pm we let Barrycuda drift way past the south end into deep water and I managed to bring up a pair of Ocean Perch ... our only fish for the day... but at least we have a feed ! By 1pm, the Bertie crew also managed one Ocean Perch and then called it a day snapping this photo of Barrycuda as they departed - would you believe this is the ONLY photo I have of Barrycuda in action on the water ..... Not even ten minutes later as we finished stowing all the fishing gear the southerly change came - right on time as forecast - and everyone left including us. It wasn't an overly strong wind, but the southerly 15kts winds crossed with the easterly 1.1m waves to create an - uncomfortable - short - sharp - bone jarring -chop that lasted from Browns for every single meter back to Sydney middle harbour .... a Thumper-of-a-ride Thursday for sure. Cheers Zoran and Maria

Nice but different catches - never ceases to amaze what's down there ..... smashing photos as always ... Thanks for posting Jon. Cheers Zoran

It was still here yesterday morning on our way out .... and coming back mid afternoon ... a couple of tug boats and crane barges were heading in that direction though. Cheers Zoran

Just a jaw dropping WOW. Awesome fish. Congrats !!! cheers Zoran

Remember these well. Thanks for reminding me that was 30yrs ago 😞 cheers Zoran

Sounds awesome Luke ! Lots of tasty variety in that mixed bag. cheers Zoran

Loved the report ! ... and congrats on the Satan Jack .... Cheers Zoran

Sorry for posting old info ... and thanks for update... I don't use FB so guess a bit of a troglodyte in that area. Cheers Zoran

Thanks for the vote of confidence @GoingFishing but all my research has been focused on shifting from 2St to 4St technology in motors in the 150-200hp range, so I cannot directly comment on any of the make / models that have been discussed here, as they are engine block designs that I have no experience in or done any research on. But it sounds like @noelm has some practical experience in this class of motors. However, what I can share is the generic information that has helped me narrow the field in my search. It is universally applicable to any outboard selection. There is a perception, largely built out of all of our auto industry experience that HP is king. But in the marine engineer community there is a saying that "HP sells boats/motors, but it's actually Torque that moves them". When you dig into it, this makes a lot of sense. Torque is the twisting force that a motor can deliver and all motors due to their design deliver different Torque output at different RPM - they have an optimum RPM range for max Torque (and hence max HP). HP itself is calculated as follows HP = (Torque x RPM)/5252 ... so ask yourself, when we see all the HP numbers attributed to our outboards have we ever actually been told at what RPM that HP was generated? Is that RPM range useable to us? Have we ever actually been shown the Torque the motor produces at different RPM? Rarely if ever. But we largely focus on that one HP rating number as the basis of our next 10-20yrs of investment. When in fact its the twisting force - the Torque at the Prop - that should be our main concern as boaties. Here's why. Most of our experience is with Automobiles. And In the Auto industry, yes HP is king, because we can bring the max Torque RPM down through gearing for effective use. eg and F1 racing car with a blown 1.5L engine produces 700HP at 10,000rpm.... but you can't drive the tyres at 10,000rpm so they have gears to bring that max Torque down to usable RPM, and then shift gears to keep the engine spinning at max torque RPM with each gear driving the wheels at a rate that can efficiently transfer the max Torque to usable motion. No ask yourself how many gears does your outboard have? ONE. It's the one gear in the lower leg that takes the crank shaft HP ( a function of RPM and Torque) and reduces it to drive the prop shaft. The reduction is typically in the range of 1.75:1 to 2.08:1. For simplicity lets say this gear is 2:1 so if the motor has a Rev range idle to redline of 700-5800, the prop would be spinning 350 -2400rpm. And if we are spinning a 17p prop (with no slip) the boat would be travelling 350rpm 11.3mph (18.1km/h) to 2400rpm 38.6MPH (62.1kmh) in that rev range. Your boat speed is totally gated by that one gear and the prop pitch that you are running.... but at which RPM does that engine produce its rated HP? And does that engine produce enough Torque in the RPM range that you need for your boating - you can't change gears on your outboard to keep the engine at its max HP (Torque x RPM) while spinning the prop at the required RPM for the speed you need. So for an outboard motor it is absolutely crucial in which RPM range does the motor produce maximum Torque, because we have four critical phases in boating: 1. idle to plane (hole shot): motor 700-2500rpm: Most boats are well on the plane by the time a motor is at 2500rpm .. prop at 1250rpm 17p prop 20.1mph (32.3km/h). (For instance my hull planes at 20km/h) In boating we need a lot of torque in this 700-2500rpm range !!! 2Stroke delivered this for years because every 2nd cycle was a power stroke. Early 4St motors borrowed from the Auto industry (with Torque optimised for high RPM designed to use gears to generate low end RPM Torque) lagged low end Torque due to the outboard single gear design for many years - the max torque was too far up the RPM range to be useful in hole shot... so the industry norm was to install a bigger HP 4st than the 2St you are replacing to keep hole shot performance. Bigger HP usually derived from bigger capacity motors and hence more overall torque at the low end. We had to oversize the 4st to preserve the Torque required for hole shot -- and then that brought in the oversized motor weight consideration. 2. Plane to midrange (ride the wave): motor 2000-3000rpm. This is where offshore boaters need torque to keep the boat on a plane on sloppy broken seas, either to climb waves or control coming down the face. Motor 2000-3000rpm is 1000-1500rpm at the 17p prop ie effective speeds of 16.1mph(25.9km/h) to 24.2mph(38.8km/h). A typical boat can't do more than that speed in broken seas - your motor needs to deliver the torque you need in this RPM range to maintain control. 3. mid range: motor 3000-4000rpm: This is typically cruising speed. The boat is now on a plane and as fishing boaties we want max economy (efficiency) and optimum cruising speed (17p prop no slip, motor 3000rpm, prop 1500rpm 24.2mph (38.8km/h); motor 4000rpm prop 2000rpm 32.2mph (51.8km/h)). If we were towing skiers we'd want more torque in this range as well. 4. top end: motor 4000-red line (typically 5800-6000 rpm) ... at these RPM ranges with that 17p prop you are travelling at 60+ km/h ... may be of interest to the US lake fisherman, but how many times do conditions allow Aussie offshore boaties do these speeds? But interestingly thats the RPM range at which many outboard manufacturers rate their max HP! In my case - completely irrelevant. So putting all these thoughts together, and setting aside engine weights for the moment, a 60HP engine of the right design may actually produce the same or more usable Torque than another vendors 70HP engine in the RPM range that you do most of your boating. You may be sacrificing some top end performance but it would be the better choice for your most common boating experience. BUT sadly all this analysis requires you to get your hands on Torque to RPM data for the engines you want to compare. ???? In my case, I searched for months and found that it actually exists in the US boating community - it seems there is a very competitive spirit still in the US and the different manufacturers benchmark competitor outboards and actually publish HP and Torque curves at trade show and such. There are many forums where avid boaties photograph and share this type of data. Here's an example of some 150HP comparisons: In the above example, the 4St Merc improved the low end RPM torque over a 2st design by some 20-30% in the early planing RPM range, by specifically building a marine 4st engine. Torque is force x distance (lb.ft, Nm etc). They created more force by increasing the capacity of the engine cylinder (more volumetric fuel to explode) and increasing the distance from the crankshaft - a bigger lever - hence generated more low RPM torque for hole shot. This is still a 4St design where each cyl only generates power every 4th cycle - it burns fuel every 4th stroke and there's the 4st fuel economy. Put simply this motor throws more metal around further from the crankshaft. This engine in several independent tests (Perth, Melb, Bris) on different manufacturer 6m+ FG hulls consistently delivers 4sec hole shot performance - I don't think thats too shabby against any 2st expectation. All due to the focus on delivering maximum Torque in the low-mid range RPM. The motor also seems to generate its max Torque in the 2500-3000rpm range - right where I want it for that plane-midrange RPM performance - for broken seas (remember motor RPM determines my hull speed due to the single gear - I need to go fast enough to plane, but can't go too fast due to the conditions but I need the torque at that RPM to keep my position on the wave.) Anyway, hope this lengthy discussion is of some help. Perhaps do some googling for the engines you are considering Merc 60CT and Yam F70, and see if you can track down a torque/rpm curve for each. Or find test cases or users and get some data points: Hull weight on water, motor RPM, speed, prop specs. Remember "HP sells boats/motors, but it's Torque that actually moves them". Cheers Zoran PS1 - some other rules of thumb, obviously a higher pitch prop needs more torque to spin it, but moving 1p between propeller pitches has about a 6% variance in speed. I've done all my calcs here on a 17p and no slip. Typical acceptable slip is 10-15%, if its more than that you need to have your set up tuned (motor height - cavitation/ventilation, size of prop diameter and pitch etc). So consider these factors in setting your prop rpm pitch to speed expectation. I can share links for these calculators if anyone is interested. PS2 - this same vendor (BRP) that produced the chart above has compared, Suz, Yam and Merc and has produced Torque RPM curves that are floating out in google land. PM me if you want the links - again I have only focused on the 150HP range specifically. PS3 - and this is off OPs topic but helps with some of the decision logic on what is usable. The chart above clearly shows the 150hp eTec is a great engine - in this comparison it may lag Torque in the planing RPM phase but produces 20-30% more Torque in the mid-range RPM - if my boating included towing skiers this would have been a contender - prior to the recent BRP announcements. But in the same breath looking at the curves it's somewhat over engineered for my planned typical boating use. Just like a 200HP 4St may be oversized- I can't use the additional Torque to spin the prop any faster in that mid range due to hull speed/sea conditions. I'm sure this will generate debate which perhaps should be moved to a different topic so the OP original question is not polluted especially if the discussion is specific to my 150-200hp decision.

How the hell did all those 3 abreast Patonga trawlers miss it is what I want to know ... you'd think at least one of the nets would have got it ? cheers Z

Hey Jeff ... I note you are keeping track of numbers ... so for team BARRYCUDA (aka Zoran) you can put down 2+2?. It will be Maria and I ... with an outlier possibility for Wayno and his wife as well. Will keep you posted. BTW, maybe this should be called the FRSSS event - the FR September Snapper Sesh ! Cheers Zoran

Just got this sent to my by a fellow fisho .... be on the lookout for 3 containers if boating in the lower Hawkesbury ... I'd have never thought they'd make their way that far upstream.... Cheers Zoran

Well if it’s not approved it’s defacing public property and it’s vandalism. I’m sure the council would have a procedure to report and investigate. cheers Zoran

Great forward notice Scratchie. I’ve pencilled in - a real snapper is on the bucket list ! cheers Zoran

Great report JamoDamo ... I learnt to fish on the Georges... many an arvo after school or an early morning sesh on weekends- so many memories. cheers Zoran

So I gather you LIKE fishing and BOATING

Touche ..... yes yes you are correct - I'll concede that point - now please post in the kitchen how you make Bacon from a pig fish !!!! 🍽️ And this is yet ANOTHER example of why I like fishing ... like minded people who don't take themselves too seriously and can give and take ... the sea has a way of humbling us all. Cheers Z