zmk1962

Love the innovation and insight? What water depth (pressure) have you explored and what do you think is the max the gear will withstand? There are a few similar videos of Browns (400-500m) deep but it would be interesting to create a FR one !! Cheers Zoran

Hey Raiders, Just an update regarding fuel economy. Yesterday I had the chance to go top up the fuel tank. It took 39.3L for the 64km Syd Harbour trip. That validates the instant VesselView readings I had reported above. Calculated averages shows 0.614L/km or 1.628km/L vs 1.3L/km or 0.74km/L on the old 200HP. Better than 100% efficiency improvement.... and as the motor runs in I should be able to squeeze out a bit more. I am absolutely stoked. Cheers Zoran

Great stuff... hope your repower is as successful as mine. All the best. cheers Zoran

Jerry, you are a gold mine of information. Thanks for sharing. Agree with what you have said regarding 2st and 4st torque and about gearing and prop pitch selection. One additional thing I will add, you can also change torque by increasing the volumetric capacity of the cyls (increasing cubic capacity, or number of cylinders, supercharging, turbo charging etc) and by increasing the length of the crank shaft (bigger lever). In other words you can design and build an engine to deliver more torque across a given RPM range. I wrote about this in the other post. Also agree on your comments re 2 stroke and E-tec. Sad as it is. It's hard for a manufacturer to go solo, no matter how great the tech, as commercial success requires an ecosystem of dealers suppliers and more importantly skills in the market place to make the technology accessible to the consumer. There was always going to be more 4stroke skill in the market than specialised DI 2stroke skill. I just hope there is enough competitive spirit left for the 4stroke manufacturers to keep driving innovation. Cheers Zoran

Thanks Luke. Re reliability. Well those that have followed my FR posts may remember that I look after my gear and I had the Merc 200 for 21years with only 1 failure at the 18yr mark. So I personally have confidence with the Black brand. On the other hand I inherited a Yam 225 And ran it for 4 years and it developed a crack in the exhaust manifold - was told it was a common occurrence with that motor. As Noel said above you have to look at the specifics of the motor you are considering and I’d add look after it ! So specific to the Merc 150HP - it was launched in 2012 with no major flaws being reported so I gather the bugs are ironed out and the base design is proven. The ProXS is a tweak. Comes with 6yr warranty. There is a lifetime warranty on the valve train. The gear case is oversized (JonD commented on this in one of his posts). Single cam design and in general has some 20% less moving parts than the other brands 4st design. It’s a simple 4cyl 4 stroke designed for DIY servicing. Annual service or at 100hrs. Anecdotal comments on other boating sites have owners reporting trouble free 600hrs+... one outlier at 10,000hrs(let’s treat that as marketing) cheers Zoran

Thanks mate. Actually I stay in the Merc club and join the 4stroke chapter! cheers Z

Hi Jeff. I had named the trip to and from Browns the “long loud silence” - hahaha - we just could not talk over the 200. The videos I have posted above pretty well show it is quieter- especially in the main operating range 3500-4500. We filmed on iPhones which have directional mics so facing the motor records louder - so take note of the motor noise when the camera is facing away. At Idle and troll it was virtually silent. When I walked back from parking the trailer I had to ask if the motor was on Also flushing with the exhaust out of water it was as loud as my cruiser idling. The area where I flush is a soundbox - 2 brick walls and a colour bond fence - 82db. cheers Zoran

Well there are fewer options left these days for sure. But at the risk of creating a lot of discussion, I also have to say that not all 4strokes are the same and you have to do your homework based on your boating style and requirements. I firmly believe that my 200HP 2st to 150HP 4st worked because of the specific 4stroke motor I chose. I make that conclusion based on my research, where even way back in 2017 I explored repowering a 6m FG hull with a 150HP - regardless of 2st or 4st technology .... and by and large I was shouted down that I won't find examples as no one was doing that - especially with a 150HP 4stroke. Well as it turns out I found many many many examples of 150HP outboards successfully running 6m+ FG hulls all around the world: Australia (WA, Vic, Bris), Germany, USA etc. Going back to 2012. Some were dealer demos (taken with a grain of salt), but some were owner repowers. But all these examples had two things in common, they were either a 150hp G1 G2 or Merc 150hp 4st. Go figure. I could not find examples of other 150HP makes running 6m FG hulls. Begs the question of why were the dealers confident to put their names against the 6m FG Merc 150HP combo, and why were the private owners putting their money on the table for repowers. This took me down the path of understanding the underlying technology of those specific motors. I'll list a few examples below - they do mention business names - if the mentors have to delete or cull the list then just PM me and I'll share via PM. Carribean Reef Runner (6.2m, 1800kg hull, repowered in 2012) https://img.boatdeckcrm.com.au/media/8898ec7ef787d6fe3e4ff16f0cb459a51f1626283a1b246847c6981fd22ebea6/1408-Repower-bulletin-150-fourstroke-caribbean.pdf Revival 640 (6.4m, 1800kg dealers own boat - I spoke to him on the phone as well as the interviewer) Quicksilver Active (6.45m, 1360kg dry hull weight, with 6 pax on board) Germany In Australia you'll find Arvour fits the 150HP to their 675m !!!! And on it goes.... My conclusion was not all 4strokes are the same. Cheers Zoran

Thanks Noel... I too like to see real world stuff. I have no axe to grind, I'm not a dealer, I'm just sharing my experiences and if there is an opportunity I'm happy to take Raiders on a ride on Barrycuda. I would make one qualification to your statement "the old more torque with a 2 stroke business is dead and gone, modern 4 strokes have a much smoother torque "band"". In my experience your statement definitely applies to older carburettor and EFI 2 strokes but the data doesn't support that view for motors like the ETEC. Heres an ETEC G1 comparison to the Standard Merc150HP 4st - this is vintage 2013 data. Look at blue G1 curve. It catches up with the Merc at 2200rpm and by 2500 planing RPM delivers a torque curve some 20% higher than the Merc but pretty much flat and even, just like the Merc. In that 2200 - 5000RPM range that's all useable, consistent torque for us boaties. They have definitely ironed out that old 2stroke peaky torque behaviour. So I'd have to exclude the DI tech engines from your comment. Sadly BRP is not playing this game anymore, so we have all lost someone to keep the 4stroke guys honest and innovating. Cheers Zoran PS. I was seriously considering the 150HP G2 and the Merc 150HP 4st. Clearly both of these 150hp motors would have worked on my boat....but the nearest Evinrude dealer to my place is 20km away, and I have 3 Merc dealers within 10km with closes at 4.7km. That was a major decision to focus on the Merc even prior to the BRP announcement.

Hey Thanks Sam. In some way the stats show that in giving away the 50HP I lost the top end speed above 70kmh (something I never used). Below that the 150hp 4stroke pretty well matched the 200HP 2stroke in the amount of torque it produced to spin the prop. In fact, it had more torque earlier and it was smoother. The 200HP had a torque peak around 4000rpm (spinning the 19p meant I was at 45kmh), if the conditions didn't allow me to do that, and I reduced RPM to say 3000rpm 30kmh, I found the torque dropped off, prop slowed down and I lost speed, the stern started to drag, so I'd have to throttle up and ease off and throttle up ease off. I was always using trim/throttle to keep the stern up at the lower cruising speeds. Also in hole shot with the 200HP I had to trim the motor in to create more lift (it just didn't have the torque at the low RPM) and then level out as we started to plane - you can see that in the 200HP video. That difference in RPM when the torque kicked in was the first thing I noticed with the 150hp - once I had trimmed the boat to optimum plane I just had to control RPM for speed - I actually made the comment "I haven't played with trim" in the WOT video. Cheers Z

Thanks Jerry .... you gave me a lot of homework in our PM exchanges !!! much appreciated. Look forward to that tag team out wide. Cheers Z

Pretty much sums it up. But if I'd just said that ... I'd run the risk of it been read as an unsubstantiated claim and me being labelled a black motor bigot. Hahaha. Now at least the many, many, many reported facts speak for them selves. Cheers Z

Nope staying wit the 17p. I had negotiated prop swaps in the purchase price. There was a box of beer on the table: mech and his team backing 16p, me 17p. They have conceded victory to the 17p - their comment being the motor had only done 1.8hrs by that time ... in their experience it will open up and shoot past the 6000rpm with ease. Already on the way back home I could feel the motor punching harder in throttle shifts. Regarding being fully loaded. On the 200HP run, it was Maria and I plus fishing gear. Maria is a good 30kg lighter than Wayno whose voice you can hear in the 150HP videos. So really there was a 20kg difference between the 200hp and 150hp hole shots tests... hardly worth worrying about... If it was that sensitive, I'd just carry 30L of fresh water instead of the 50L taken now. Regarding motor weights: actually 22kg difference. The 200hp is 175kg plus the 9kg 2stroke oil reservoir. So 184kg vs 150HP 206kg. Cheers Z

Hahaha ... sorry Gordo ... I wasn't trying to avoid you ... really I wasn't !!! BTW, I've driven through some of the streets there .... you sure I can park a 12m+ rig in your street to share that cuppa??? Cheers Z

Hey Jerry, Thanks for posting that. Agree 10000% re ethanol in fuel comments. I discussed the 87 with my dealer/mechanic (I trust them as they have proven they know their stuff - they also race Mercs under full stress conditions -eg took out the bridge to bridge last year) .. can't mention name but they snuck a colour coded sticker on the new motor which is visible in the photo in the other post. When I saw it I said that entitles me to a discount at the next service and he said actually the contract fine print says there is a charge if its not there at the service - hahaha. Anyway, he actually recommends I use 95 or even 98 to top up the tank as I am unlikely to use the full tank on every trip. The residual fuel will lose RON sitting in the tank, so topping up with 95/98 will keep it somewhere between 91-95. Pretty much what I have been saying for years in other posts. The owners manual says use 87 if you are in US or Canada, and min 91 outside these countries and 95 is acceptable. Since I can't find 91 around where I live, I will continue to use 95. My mech also said buy from reputable outlets - as apparently an outlet only has to declare there is ethanol in the fuel if its more than 6% !!!!!! So there's outlets topping up the RON with ethanol and staying below the 6%. Merc manual. Cheers Zoran

BRAND: Mercury HP (model): 150HP ProXS XL 3L 4stroke YEAR: 2020 BOAT DATA (length, weight): 6.35m, 1972kg YOUR SERVICE INTERVAL: 1st service 20hrs, then annually or at 100hrs after that. Lifetime warranty on valve train. FUEL: Unleaded 95 or 98 HOW LONG HAVE YOU USED THE OUTBOARD (hours on motor): 3.3hrs - just repowered - will update this post over time as I gain experience with the motor. TYPICAL BOATING USE (boating, skiing, fishing etc): Offshore fishing OTHER COMMENTS: Almost silent at idle ... but throatie at 5000rpm. Full write up on motor and initial performance data is in the referenced post below: ===============================================

Hey Raiders, To cut a long story short, I pretty much did the unthinkable: I moved from a Mercury 200HP EFI XL 2.5L 2stroke to a Mercury 150HP ProXS XL 3.0L 4stroke .. Whaaaaaa ! ... and here's the goods for those that may be interested. But first a picture of the Black Beast that replaced Black Beauty ! I mentioned in a post a few weeks back that I was moving to repower my trusty Haines 635L. The Merc 200HP EFI had been great and reliable but was getting a little too thirsty for the long shelf runs we were doing more often. But like some of you have found the move from a 2st large thumper presented so many choices and considerations that it was just freaking daunting: stick with 2st trusted torque, move to 4stroke but increase HP or at least stay the same, what about the added weight etc etc etc. I spent a lot of time researching and talking to Raiders, mechanics, dealers etc which helped me clarify what the main repower concerns and considerations were, and all this helped focus my research to ensure I had these items covered off before the big deci$ion. I posted some of my research in @Scienceman's topic recently where I mentioned that when repowering we should be considering the effective torque the motor was generating across the RPM range more than the single HP rating the motor had been assigned. Infact we should first understand what type of boating we planned to do (fishing, waterskiing etc) and then based on that requirement evaluate the torque a motor was generating in the RPM range that was critical to that style of boating: 1. idle to plane (hole shot): motor 700-2500rpm 2. Plane to midrange (ride the wave): motor 2000-3000rpm. 3. mid range: (economical offshore cruising) motor 3000-4000rpm: 4. top end: motor 4000-red line (typically 5800-6000 rpm) In my case, being mainly an offshore fisho - performance in the hole shot, ride the wave and economical cruising RPM ranges was of MOST importance. Which meant the motor I chose HAD to deliver sufficient torque to spin a prop pitch that gave me the best speed/efficiency performance in those RPM ranges. Anyway, putting all that theory aside, the proof is when the "rubber hits the road" or "the prop hits the water". So having just completed the maiden sea trials (3.3hrs out of 8hr run-in procedure) I'll start by sharing the specifications and the stats. The new motor is a Mercury 150HP ProXS XL 3.0L 4st fitted with a 14.5in 17p Enertia propeller. The ProXS has a 2.08:1 gear box, a WOT of 6000rpm (200rpm and 5-8% more torque than standard 150HP). Here's the Haines 635L data: Length: 6.35m Beam 2.4m Heres the weight on water showing the 200HP and the 150HP 4st The maiden voyage had all the above except for the fishing gear (rods, rigs, lures, bait etc) - the fuel tank was full 240L, full water, 2 onboard, bait board and all other gear were on board laying at the rear of the cockpit floor. The run-in procedure for the 4st required the motor to be operated at varied RPM, 3500-4500rpm and no more than 1min at WOT out of every 10min over the first 2hrs. It took us about 20min to cruise out to where we could do a hole shot. Here's the first hole shot (first time motor went to 3500 and above): Hole shot 4sec. 3500rpm 41kmh .... not bad from a very tight yet to be run-in 4st pushing1922kg and dragging the swim ladder (doh) !!! For comparison, here is a similar video of the 1999 Mercury 200HP EFI XL spinning a Vengeance 14in 19p prop taken a few weeks ago heading out to Browns - this is a 2st motor that has perfect compression (and 21yrs of running-in). 200HP Hole shot - identical to the 150HP 4st ..... I think that should lay to rest that 4strokes do not have the torque of a 2stroke ... The maiden run was a 64km round trip from Ermington to Roseville via Middle Harbour, Sydney Heads etc So a mixture of smooth estuary water to very choppy harbour open water conditions. After 1.5hrs at 3500-4500 (occasional spurt to 5000) traveling up Syd Harbour to past Spit Bridge it was time to test WOT. We didn't quite reach WOT 6000rpm -- recorded 5820rpm 70kmh before encountering water traffic and running out of waterway. Here's the vessel view stats: So my summary observations: Hole shot: 4 Seconds smooth and powerful. As I incremented the speed 1000-2500-3000-3500 etc it had torque punch that put you in the back of the seat up to 5200rpm. 5500 onward it lost the punch and was just a steady pickup in speed. the Merc 150HP is a torque beast !!!!….. Ploughing through the chop around middle head I did not have to play with the throttle or trim just set the RPM and it held speed. 3200 35kmh 4000 43kmh 4500 51kmh. 5500 66kmh 5820 70kmh. Fuel consumption: mid range cruising speed across Harbour chop at 3200-4500rpm 35-51km/h vessel view was reporting 1.5km/L (or 0.67L/km), trolling speeds 12km/h 2.6km/L (or 0.38L/km). For comparison: heres the 200HP EFI 2st data which I have posted at various times on FR previously. 3200 30 4000 45 4200 55 5200 75 5800 80+ Average offshore trip of 100km used 135L : 0.74km/L (or 1.35L/km) So on current data on a 100km round trip to Browns I will see 100% fuel efficiency improvement and maintain the same speeds. So to say I am happy with the above results would be an understatement - I am freaking ecstatic !! Hope this helps some one else with their analysis. Cheers Zoran ("HP sells boats/motors, but it's torque that actually moves them") PS - Some of you may know that I was in no rush to repower and started my research back in 2017 with a post in this boating forum ("Repower 6.2m Fiberglass Hull"). I had a hunch that something had happened in the industry - which was changing the traditional rules of thumb we used to power our boats. It looks like that hunch was correct, in the background manufacturers had been working on technologies that brought the torque down into the lower RPM range and kept it flatter for a longer RPM range. Evinrude did it with their Direct Injection technology, Merc did it with their reworked bottom up marine 4stroke tech. Below is a chart that I found that showed the Standard Merc 150HP 4st crank torque vs RPM curve (the ProXS model has 5-8% more). It's virtually flat from 1500-5000rpm - right in the range that boaters need - and I can now validate it puts you in the back of the seat right through that range.

Fantastic report. 3 for 3 can’t complain about that. Plus one to haunt you so that you will definitely be back. These trips make memories - bet the beers were sweet! cheers Zoran

Awesome reds. Well done. Especially given the conditions. cheers Zoran

Just to close this out .... https://www.powerboat-world.com/news/229486/Salvage-complete Cheers Z

Hey my ears must have been ringing! .. and I don’t run on 12V!

Also check that you don’t have squelch cranked up. Turn it back until you hear noise. Then increment forward until the noise just disappears. cheers Zoran

Silverwater is very close to C’Hill. I plan to be in PS but happy to rock the red ones ASAP. Happy to pick up. cheers Zoran

I swear my mouth instantly watered when I got to the picture KC !!!! Hats off to you mate top shelf stuff. Just love it. I'm now waiting eagerly to see how Paddy's kingie turns out ... I can see my self catching a kingie and doing this. Cheers and Thanks Zoran

Might be worth posting that as a separate topic - consumption will depend on what speed your are boating at and under what conditions. Facing into the wind and tide - you will use more fuel then going with the wind and tide at same engine rpm. If you plane you will go a lot further, but if conditions don't allow your boat to plane - you will be boating for a longer time at lower rpm. As with any new to you boat/motor - you will need to get experience with it. Does your tank have a fuel gauge? Does it show the fuel level accurately (you can test this is at the bowser)... 25L tank, put in 5L, does it read 1/5th full, fill another 5L, etc. Some gauges do not read accurately and you'll need to get a feel for yours. Then once you know how your tank gauge works, go for a boating run and note the conditions - are you planing, at what speed, are you running with tide or against etc. Once you stop - check your fuel used (according to the gauge). On the first few trips, I would not use more than half a tank moving away from launch point... leave at least the same amount of fuel to get back assuming the same conditions ...Or carry a small 5L spare jerry can until you get comfortable with the consumption... and learn your regular waterways Sorry I can't be more helpful wrt to a 35HP as I've been running 200+hp since 1996... but I recall a 25L tank would last forever with my 40HP Tohatsu. Cheers Zoran