Internet ruins the fishery

[blaxland]

Hi raiders went out this morining thinking of snapper first stop artificial of south head, slimy and yakka abundant. headed to a spot of Dee why in 40 mtrs I have caught snapper before paternoster bottom bashing did not turn a reel, moved to 22mtrs off curl curl plenty of bluespot flat head lots undersize but managed 4 for the table. At balmoral having lunch flounder, shovenose took live baits and something which ran jumped and spat the live bait out no keepers. Back at the ramp having a chat to a tour guide who said there were 15 boats at goat Island and some good kings landed he bemoaned the fact facebook was ruining the fishery as as soon as somebody post a pic next day 15 boats turn up lol

 

[savit]

Tomorrow will be another 15 boats at Goat island of  those who are on forum and not on FB lol.

 

[Nolongeramember]

People are wrecking it for themselves. 

[mrsswordfisherman]

True blaxland but just because you know where does not assure you of fish. Location is only one element involved.

Fishraiders catch fish because they help others with the other elements and they do their research ;)

Good on your flatties and hope you had a nice dinner :)

[GoingFishing]

Fish do not stay in one location and kings especially will move about. There is no guarantee for instance that the kings will be at goat island tomorrow morning.

A good catch of fish is usually the result of research, understanding the conditions on the day your fishing and where and how to best fish a particular location.

All that being said, there are locations which over the years have been overfished due to popularity such as the Entrance. So i can understand the issue on some.level.

[zmk1962]

3 hours ago, blaxland said:

bemoaned the fact facebook was ruining the fishery

Thanks @blaxland .. now when I come home after  'wasting a hole day'  without  'any fish to show for it'   I will have another excuse to give my wife -- " sorry hon... no fish 'coz of the internet!  "

BAHAHAHA ?

Cheers

Z

 

[dirvin21]

There's always something that's "ruining the fishing" at the moment it's facebook, I'm sure in a few years it'll be something else

I don't have much of an issue with putting up locations, most of the areas I fish are 100% public and visible to passersby and to be honest the fish are hard to fool in said locations, a lot of my other spots are seriously difficult to access and thus not many people are willing to make the effort, anyone who knows me on FR will tell you I'm always happy to share locations

the only time I completely withhold location info is out of respect to landowners when it's private land I've been granted access too.

I think social media can actually help boost rec fishing by helping anglers find spots and then they get seen as areas of rec value, look at the loads of TSR that's under review for sale because of apparent limited recreational usage which a lot of the time is a select few know of it's existence and wouldn't share it even if being interrogated via torture  and thus hardly anyone uses them then the Government see's no value to keeping them

 

[big Neil]

9 hours ago, blaxland said:

Hi raiders went out this morining thinking of snapper first stop artificial of south head, slimy and yakka abundant. headed to a spot of Dee why in 40 mtrs I have caught snapper before paternoster bottom bashing did not turn a reel, moved to 22mtrs off curl curl plenty of bluespot flat head lots undersize but managed 4 for the table. At balmoral having lunch flounder, shovenose took live baits and something which ran jumped and spat the live bait out no keepers. Back at the ramp having a chat to a tour guide who said there were 15 boats at goat Island and some good kings landed he bemoaned the fact facebook was ruining the fishery as as soon as somebody post a pic next day 15 boats turn up lol

 

G'day Blaxland. I reckon that Social Media is here to stay. Like everything else, it has good and bad aspects, but people will be people. Everybody who has an appropriate licence is entitled to catch fish. All that we can do is play by the rules and keep an eye out for those who aren't. You're experienced enough to move around, use your local knowledge and come up with a result. We're still fortunate to be living in a country where anglers can reasonably expect to catch something, even if it's not their preferred species... despite the ever-increasing numbers hitting the water. The major problem is that there are so many anglers in the Newcastle to Wollongong region, using a limited amount of water, on a very regular basis. That has to have an impact on results and the difficulties achieving them. Plod on mate, you're doing alright. Cheers, bn

[Koalaboi]

9 hours ago, GoingFishing said:

Fish do not stay in one location and kings especially will move about. There is no guarantee for instance that the kings will be at goat island tomorrow morning.

A good catch of fish is usually the result of research, understanding the conditions on the day your fishing and where and how to best fish a particular location.

All that being said, there are locations which over the years have been overfished due to popularity such as the Entrance. So i can understand the issue on some.level.

The internet can be a problem. I do know that  Fishraider is a fantastic place for our members because we share ideas, knowledge and opinions we can trust. I am wary of fishing reports from tackle shops!

Crowding can be a problem and I have known of fellas to actually come to blows over fishing too close etc. The internet was nothing to do with it. Some times at The Entrance Channel when the whiting are on, the crowds can be ridiculous.

Not sure though about the overfishing at The Entrance if you mean by recreational fishers. It's true that since commercial fishing was banned in Sydney Harbour and Lake Macquarie, that there has been pressure on Tuggerah Lakes and, the all in all, fishing at Tuggerah Lakes seems to have gone backwards whilst the Harbour and Lake Macquarie have really bloomed.

As well, currently there is no real tidal flow into the Lake as the last couple of hundred metres of the channel near the sea are choked with sand. The minor flooding caused by last week's rain has not really dropped as quickly as it would have in the past with the channel open. As a result, the Lake is not fishing all that well. I suspect that the groyne constructed at The Entrance Beach may have something to do with the sand movement at the mouth.

We get thousands of tourists up here starting with the Chromefest festival this weekend. Like most of us who live in tourism based areas along the coast, the summers can be frustrating, lots of cars, lots of people fishing, lots of rubbish. But really, last summer, right through the holidays I caught more than enough fish. Most of the tourists are not all that serious about fishing which means those of us who put in the time and effort to learn how to fish our local area can still do well.

That being said, I would like to see commercial fishing of the lake put on hold for a minimum of five years to give stocks a chance to recover and hopefully the current pros could turn a living as fishing guides. Alternatively, the government could buy out the licences as current pros hang up their nets and retire. I just don't think that the commercial fishers in the Lake contribute as much to the local economy and employment as recreational fishing does but am not sure on that. Moreover, that if netting was banned in the lake, I reckon the fishing would be absolutely sensational. I do know that standing at The Entrance beach in summer and counting hundreds of fishers all buying tackle and bait is seeing dollar signs flashing!

It would certainly be a better idea than the marine sanctuary concept that this current state government floated a while back.

KB

Edited October 25, 2018 by Koalaboi

[zmk1962]

39 minutes ago, Koalaboi said:

I would like to see commercial fishing of the lake put on hold for a minimum of five years to give stocks a chance to recover

Now there's a good place to use the internet and social media - to improve the fishing !!

Cheers

Zoran

[GoingFishing]

1 hour ago, Koalaboi said:

The internet can be a problem. I do know that  Fishraider is a fantastic place for our members because we share ideas, knowledge and opinions we can trust. I am wary of fishing reports from tackle shops!

Crowding can be a problem and I have known of fellas to actually come to blows over fishing too close etc. The internet was nothing to do with it. Some times at The Entrance Channel when the whiting are on, the crowds can be ridiculous.

Not sure though about the overfishing at The Entrance if you mean by recreational fishers. It's true that since commercial fishing was banned in Sydney Harbour and Lake Macquarie, that there has been pressure on Tuggerah Lakes and, the all in all, fishing at Tuggerah Lakes seems to have gone backwards whilst the Harbour and Lake Macquarie have really bloomed.

As well, currently there is no real tidal flow into the Lake as the last couple of hundred metres of the channel near the sea are choked with sand. The minor flooding caused by last week's rain has not really dropped as quickly as it would have in the past with the channel open. As a result, the Lake is not fishing all that well. I suspect that the groyne constructed at The Entrance Beach may have something to do with the sand movement at the mouth.

We get thousands of tourists up here starting with the Chromefest festival this weekend. Like most of us who live in tourism based areas along the coast, the summers can be frustrating, lots of cars, lots of people fishing, lots of rubbish. But really, last summer, right through the holidays I caught more than enough fish. Most of the tourists are not all that serious about fishing which means those of us who put in the time and effort to learn how to fish our local area can still do well.

That being said, I would like to see commercial fishing of the lake put on hold for a minimum of five years to give stocks a chance to recover and hopefully the current pros could turn a living as fishing guides. Alternatively, the government could buy out the licences as current pros hang up their nets and retire. I just don't think that the commercial fishers in the Lake contribute as much to the local economy and employment as recreational fishing does but am not sure on that. Moreover, that if netting was banned in the lake, I reckon the fishing would be absolutely sensational. I do know that standing at The Entrance beach in summer and counting hundreds of fishers all buying tackle and bait is seeing dollar signs flashing!

It would certainly be a better idea than the marine sanctuary concept that this current state government floated a while back.

KB

Il never forget new years day 2015 there were at least 100 ppl fishing the mouth of the entrance from both sides with some cross water tangles it provided for excellent entertainment.

[Nolongeramember]

Still, you put in years of trial, error and research to find your place to fish and then some bloke advertises it, then suddenly all your time and hard work is wrecked because your all crowded over by noobies. 

[PaddyT]

47 minutes ago, GoingFishing said:

Il never forget new years day 2015 there were at least 100 ppl fishing the mouth of the entrance from both sides with some cross water tangles it provided for excellent entertainment.

I can remember being part of fishing crowds at the entrance 35 years ago that had 100+ in the channel- so nothing is new, as to the internet ruining fishing - well thats a bit of a stretch. Most fishing guides are good guys ( i know a couple of the Sydney ones pretty well) but they do tend to want the action to themselves (which is fine , thats human nature) which is complteley unrealistic in a big city like Sydney. The quality of fishing for such a big city is very good and we should all appreciate it for what it is. 15 boats on a school of kings in the harbour- meeh- have seen the Peak back in the 80's with over 100 boats anchored up and drifting.  However in general I dont give away spots or detailed reports to anyone except a couple of trusted mates, im happy to share every bit of :"general" information i have but i dont see the need for spoonfeeding. 

[mrsswordfisherman]

36 minutes ago, Hateanchors said:

Still, you put in years of trial, error and research to find your place to fish and then some bloke advertises it, then suddenly all your time and hard work is wrecked because your all crowded over by noobies. 

Not so sure about that argument. Most people are told about spots. The "secret spots" are handed down from our Dads, grandadads, Mums, sisters and brothers and family friends. No one owns the spots or just "finds them". They have been fished for years. 

When we took over fishraider we made a promise that we would not be just a brag board like all the other forums. If members do not want to disclose spots then they don't post or disclose them. We share the info here and help others to enjoy the sport and fish within the guidelines. Perhaps that is why we have outlasted all the others?

I was only discussing this recently. I also think it is easy to get a boat and car these days. When I was a kid people who had a boat and nice car were rich! People can buy good rods and reels and tackle for cheap these days. The sport is way more accessible to everyone. 

I do understand your concerns though @Hateanchors. Just enjoy the fishing and don't worry about the crowds.

mrsswordie

 

[rickmarlin62]

There are lots of examples of crowds turning up after a report or foto on fb  doesnt mean they will catch fish  if your not sittin right on the reef or ledge or hole where the fish are holding you may catch nothing  if you catch fish and are worried bout being crowded out be smart and get there earlier than the others to get the best spot   crowds have been turning up at spots by word of mouth  years before social media came into the picture   i myself must be killing spots as ive posted fotos  with marked areas on this very site  happily so  and i hope other raiders have caught fish there   its not just fb  there are many forums and clubs on social med today with lots of fotos and reports also fishing reports up n down coast in papers for years   when it comes down to it if u dont like the crowded spots do like i have for years and go find new spots to fish   how did u find out bout spots u fish now  methinks probably internet or book of gps marks maybe  dont blame media for lack of fish   if u go right spot right time right tide right bait  u just might hookup

[Nolongeramember]

29 minutes ago, mrsswordfisherman said:

Not so sure about that argument. Most people are told about spots. The "secret spots" are handed down from our Dads, grandadads, Mums, sisters and brothers and family friends. No one owns the spots or just "finds them". They have been fished for years. 

When we took over fishraider we made a promise that we would not be just a brag board like all the other forums. If members do not want to disclose spots then they don't post or disclose them. We share the info here and help others to enjoy the sport and fish within the guidelines. Perhaps that is why we have outlasted all the others?

I was only discussing this recently. I also think it is easy to get a boat and car these days. When I was a kid people who had a boat and nice car were rich! People can buy good rods and reels and tackle for cheap these days. The sport is way more accessible to everyone. 

I do understand your concerns though @Hateanchors. Just enjoy the fishing and don't worry about the crowds.

mrsswordie

 

I agree, I love sharing my information on here and helping out others to catch a fish. But pointing out specific spots at specific times to all, I don’t agree with. 

[PaddyT]

58 minutes ago, rickmarlin62 said:

There are lots of examples of crowds turning up after a report or foto on fb  doesnt mean they will catch fish  if your not sittin right on the reef or ledge or hole where the fish are holding you may catch nothing  if you catch fish and are worried bout being crowded out be smart and get there earlier than the others to get the best spot   crowds have been turning up at spots by word of mouth  years before social media came into the picture   i myself must be killing spots as ive posted fotos  with marked areas on this very site  happily so  and i hope other raiders have caught fish there   its not just fb  there are many forums and clubs on social med today with lots of fotos and reports also fishing reports up n down coast in papers for years   when it comes down to it if u dont like the crowded spots do like i have for years and go find new spots to fish   how did u find out bout spots u fish now  methinks probably internet or book of gps marks maybe  dont blame media for lack of fish   if u go right spot right time right tide right bait  u just might hookup

This, getting agro about someone fishing in "your" favourite spot is kind of the opposite of why we go fishing isnt it? Fishing is meant to relieve the day to day stress of life. I understand that a guide might want to get unimpeded access to a school of fish but is that a realistic attitude? I have seen one guide in the Broken Bay region loose his marbles on more than one occasion and another who mainly fishes the same area behave nothing but politely and courteously to all around him- I know which one I would recommend to friends or who I would do repeat business with. Most of the Harbour based guys seem to accept that they are fishing a crowded waterway, I generally keep away from them all unless we fish the same area by coincidence. There are other schools of fish other than the one the guides are hitting.

[jdanger]

15 hours ago, blaxland said:

Hi raiders went out this morining thinking of snapper first stop artificial of south head, slimy and yakka abundant. headed to a spot of Dee why in 40 mtrs I have caught snapper before paternoster bottom bashing did not turn a reel, moved to 22mtrs off curl curl plenty of bluespot flat head lots undersize but managed 4 for the table. At balmoral having lunch flounder, shovenose took live baits and something which ran jumped and spat the live bait out no keepers. Back at the ramp having a chat to a tour guide who said there were 15 boats at goat Island and some good kings landed he bemoaned the fact facebook was ruining the fishery as as soon as somebody post a pic next day 15 boats turn up lol

 

You werent at rose bay were you? Was on a charter yesterday chasing kings on fly. The crowd around goat island was unmissable.

Only thing ruining the fishing was the idiot trolling back and forth through the school at 15knots whilst everyone else was respectfully fishing the edges. Then he gets aggressive and screaming abuse at everyone for giving him the stink eye.

Anyway, plenty of kings around for everybody. Mostly rats but a couple 1m+ models taken on live squid around goat. We ended up moving on and found plenty nearby and had them all to ourselves!

Good fun on fly.

Edited October 26, 2018 by jdanger
Photo

[G_Dog_Rota]

Commercial Fishing ruins recreational fishing ......

Recreational fisherman are a drop in the ocean in comparison to commercial fishing.. (pardon the pun)... 

[Rob81]

You should probably factor in, that the fact there is a crowd there and everyone else going by thinks something is going on so will go in to investigate or give it a go as well. 

[kingfishbig]

40 minutes ago, G_Dog_Rota said:

Commercial Fishing ruins recreational fishing ......

Recreational fisherman are a drop in the ocean in comparison to commercial fishing.. (pardon the pun)... 

Not here in NSW. The rec catch is equal or greater than the commercial catch for several popular species.

[zmk1962]

1 hour ago, kingfishbig said:

Not here in NSW. The rec catch is equal or greater than the commercial catch for several popular species.

I think this tangent is way off topic ... and perhaps deserves its own thread. 

BUT....for the sake of the discussion,  even if we accept for a moment that the rec catch was identical in size to the commercial catch - I would still argue that the commercial arm has a much larger impact on the fisheries. 

The methods used by commercial fishing to harvest their catch  are much more detrimental to the environment, spawning habitat and ultimately the entire fisheries - then any fishing (basically hook line sinker) methods approved for rec use.

Just look at the by catch for estuary trawlers -- so while the target species catch may be equal in size between rec and commercial - there is no doubt the commercial by catch is much much greater? 

Consider habitat --- how many rec boats would have to anchor in any one area to replicate the damage caused by a single  pass of a prawn trawler - let alone their systematic daily schedule where they are often three abreast!  

Lets keep some common sense and practical perspective around the "statistics" promoted by various parties with vested interests. After all we are all on the water - we see what happens - some how those real life observations don't seem to come out in the statistics!

Cheers

Zoran

 

[kingfishbig]

45 minutes ago, zmk1962 said:

I think this tangent is way off topic ... and perhaps deserves its own thread. 

BUT....for the sake of the discussion,  even if we accept for a moment that the rec catch was identical in size to the commercial catch - I would still argue that the commercial arm has a much larger impact on the fisheries. 

The methods used by commercial fishing to harvest their catch  are much more detrimental to the environment, spawning habitat and ultimately the entire fisheries - then any fishing (basically hook line sinker) methods approved for rec use.

Just look at the by catch for estuary trawlers -- so while the target species catch may be equal in size between rec and commercial - there is no doubt the commercial by catch is much much greater? 

Consider habitat --- how many rec boats would have to anchor in any one area to replicate the damage caused by a single  pass of a prawn trawler - let alone their systematic daily schedule where they are often three abreast!  

Lets keep some common sense and practical perspective around the "statistics" promoted by various parties with vested interests. After all we are all on the water - we see what happens - some how those real life observations don't seem to come out in the statistics!

Cheers

Zoran

 

The catch data is collected and put together by the DPI, it is what it is, nothing 'vested interest' about it.  PS you are making a lot of assumptions and passing them off as 'real life observations'. Eg prawn trawlers trawl over sandy bottom offshore or mud river bottoms scored daily by strong currents and research shows they do little damage to these habitats. Also there is area management - ie there are a lot of places they can't trawl.

Edited October 26, 2018 by kingfishbig

[mrsswordfisherman]

Ok this thread has gone 

Start a new topic in Fisheries News and Politics if you want to discuss commercial fishing, trawlers and the like. 

I will merge the previous comments into it

[jeffb5.8]

I have fished Goat island only a couple of times, the crowds can get unnerving when you trying to keep clear of other boats, rig a line and supervise the kids.

Some and by some I mean only two out of 12 boats are complete W4nkers who think they own the drift right through the middle, I do wish fisheries would do a spot check as I did see one of those boats pull in a fair few Kings and nothing went back in, but later when I was fishing back down the river, they did go and off load to another boat down the river once as well.

So that's when the internet can ruin the fishing, but other days I go past and there is not one boat. Weekends for swimming and cruising and weekdays for fishing.