JD Attempt #1

[Little_Flatty]

I've donutted the past couple of sessions with lures, so I decided to put into practice @wazatherfisherman's advice on John Dory fishing this morning.

Up at 4am (not really by choice!), but it gave me a chance to organise a bit of gear and do some pre-rigging. After a bit of breakfast, I got down to Cremorne Pt at 5:30am. I'd brought some cat food and white bread to use as berley.

For the first hour, I struggled to get any liveys. Started out fishing close to the bottom for a mado or other spikey critters, but failed to get any. So started berleying and started fishing the upper part of the water column to see if I could tempt a yakka. It was also quiet up there, but after the first hour had elapsed, my rod folded over and I had a 30cm cowanyoung (big yakka) on the wharf. Yikes, I didn't even have a big enough hook for the thing! But beggars can't be choosers in the dead of winter, so down went the cowanyoung and I continued fishing for liveys.

As the sun started to come up, I started to get a few bite on the live bait line and up came a little snapper and then a jacket in quick succession. Released both of them. Then I decide to check the livey line and realised the cowanyoung had SNAGGED me under the wharf! I lost the rig, which was a bit frustrating. Mustn't have used a heavy enough sinker!

Just as I re-rigged got a call from home to say the kids had gotten up early and were driving their mum bonkers. So it was time to go. That's the price I pay to get a couple of future fishing buddies! Turns out it was a mistake not to drag my eldest out with me in the freezing cold (but that could also have ended my trip prematurely as well!).

Some birds started circling as I was packing up, so I tied on a Halco Twisty and threw that around for a few minutes for no hits. So I went home. As a nice consolation prize, we had a nice morning on the beach, with a bit of bike riding thrown in.

So a few lessons learned; heavier sinkers, bring a bigger assortment of hooks and bring a kid with me (better they are troubling me while fishing than mum while sleeping! 🤣).

I've always struggled to find good live baits when I've wanted them, on harbour wharves. The one thing I didn't try was to weight my bait more lightly, but I was thinking about mados and little spikey reef fish than yakkas. Anyone have tips? Or is it just a bit hit and miss sometimes?

[Rebel]

Back to the drawing board.

[Blackfish]

We used to trim the Tail so they wouldn't swim as well making it easier for the Dory to catch.

Also I think they may not be as prevalent as days gone by.

[bessell1955]

Well at least you had a go!

[Green Hornet]

The only way you’ll really learn Mike, is getting out there and having a go.

Your report reminds me of when I first started live baiting from the rocks. I had no idea and it took me more than a year to land my first fish, but it was full steam ahead after that.

Stick with it and the dedication will pay off.

[Isaac Ct]

Great effort mate, great to see you giving it a go. If you have some success you might find a couple of beggars at your door wanting those Dory. Keen to see if you catch any.

[dirvin21]

Keep at it Mike 

The fact thst it's hard is what make success so much better

[big Neil]

I remember several years ago, when I first met Waza. We went down to (I think it was Cremorne Ferry Jetty) to fish for JD's. We actually got some Mados and duly sent them out to try to catch some JD's. A pesky Cormorant was attracted to the area and kept harassing our live baits, so much so that we didn't get any target species. Learned a lot from Waza though, who is a wealth of knowledge, so great experience. I haven't eaten one yet but apparently they are one of the tastiest fish in the sea.

Good luck with your pursuit of them LF.

Cheers, bn

[Little_Flatty]

3 hours ago, Rebel said:

Back to the drawing board.

Certainly is! I have a lot of ideas to make thing better, just got to get the next chance to get down on the water.

3 hours ago, Blackfish said:

We used to trim the Tail so they wouldn't swim as well making it easier for the Dory to catch.

Also I think they may not be as prevalent as days gone by.

I did this, but evidently it wasn't enough. I suspect the dory and yakkas alike might have copped a beating over the long weekend. 

2 hours ago, bessell1955 said:

Well at least you had a go!

Was still a nice morning, watching the sun rise over the bridge. I'd do it again in a flash, fish or no fish.

1 hour ago, Green Hornet said:

The only way you’ll really learn Mike, is getting out there and having a go.

Your report reminds me of when I first started live baiting from the rocks. I had no idea and it took me more than a year to land my first fish, but it was full steam ahead after that.

Stick with it and the dedication will pay off.

Sure will! I'm enjoying a change of scenery and methods. I suspect the secret is being able to find good live baits, just like the key to getting kings is getting the squid.

26 minutes ago, Isaac Ct said:

Great effort mate, great to see you giving it a go. If you have some success you might find a couple of beggars at your door wanting those Dory. Keen to see if you catch any.

Any beggars at my door are going to leave disappointed 🤣

12 minutes ago, dirvin21 said:

Keep at it Mike 

The fact thst it's hard is what make success so much better

Yep, that's what I tell my kids! The truly fun things in life are the things that take mastery. I guess I'm going to need to put in a lot more sessions to prove the point 🤣

10 minutes ago, big Neil said:

I remember several years ago, when I first met Waza. We went down to (I think it was Cremorne Ferry Jetty) to fish for JD's. We actually got some Mados and duly sent them out to try to catch some JD's. A pesky Cormorant was attracted to the area and kept harassing our live baits, so much so that we didn't get any target species. Learned a lot from Waza though, who is a wealth of knowledge, so great experience. I haven't eaten one yet but apparently they are one of the tastiest fish in the sea.

Good luck with your pursuit of them LF.

Cheers, bn

Thanks Neil. Shame about the cormarant, but you just can't beat good company with those million dollar views! A nice warm drink couldn't go astray...idea filed away for next time!

[Bluebenbomb]

It's good to get out.

Surprisingly I was at Cremorne Point today (don't think I saw you though...) and basically doughnutted the session apart from a few leatherjackets and juvenile snapper.

Anyways it was a good morning, but starting to get cold.

Good luck on your endeavours on finding that mysterious John Dory.

[wazatherfisherman]

Hi Mike keep at the Dory fishing, when you succeed you'll have a memorable meal! The window of opportunity for them really is when the tide is slack- both high and low.

Yakka's will always snag you if there's anything to swim around, hence using the large sinker to keep their swimming arc restricted, Mado's are more user-friendly and in my opinion a better bait anyway. To target them use a size 14 or so longshank and a split shot about as big as a match head roughly, pinched on about a foot from the hook. Tiny bits of peeled prawn are better than the reliable hamburger mince used for Yakka's and they are often just below the bottom of the floating section of the wharf. The western side of Cremorne Wharf has been a better Mado spot but sadly that faces the Westerly winds. When it's really cold the Yakka's are often really deep, coming up higher in the water column when the sun is up and it warms up a bit, fishing the moorings/kelp beds for them is a different situation as they often reside there

If there aren't any baitfish present in any number, like most predators, Dory won't be attracted to the area, so if you are having difficulty obtaining bait, it's a reasonable theory that there might not be any Dory nearby.

Dory should be around by this time of year but they've been really scarce the last few years, however, good years for Dory generally coincide with good seasons for Hairtail and they have been around for a good few months this year, so hopefully there'll be some Dory around soon.

[Larkin]

Hi Mike, good on you for giving it a go. I too have had 2 sessions trying - both land based. First one plenty of baitfish around and managed to catch about 5 small trumpeter for live bait - using the method waza just mentioned above. Live baited them but nothing. Second time - about a week ago - had the same issue as you, couldn’t get any live bait - ended up with a small wrasse as a live bait. But managed to hook 2 good size jackets (among a heap of small ones) while attempting to catch livies. 
I have a spot I want to try on the water - it’s a drop off - there are always tiny snappers there - very small ones under 10cm and small trumpeters. 
My issue is not knowing if there are any Dory about or not - no reports of anyone catching any - although no one is really targeting them.

Good report and hopefully you get one of these ghosts!

[DrRaymondSnapper]

Maybe try some of those  bait jigs that come pre-packed. Samaki type ? Available at tackle shops and they`re cheap and seem to work well off wharves. Not sure if good for yakkas but worth a go.

[Little_Flatty]

9 hours ago, Bluebenbomb said:

It's good to get out.

Surprisingly I was at Cremorne Point today (don't think I saw you though...) and basically doughnutted the session apart from a few leatherjackets and juvenile snapper.

Anyways it was a good morning, but starting to get cold.

Good luck on your endeavours on finding that mysterious John Dory.

Thanks Ben, I was out of there by 7am. It's not a donut if you caught a few little fish! 

9 hours ago, wazatherfisherman said:

Hi Mike keep at the Dory fishing, when you succeed you'll have a memorable meal! The window of opportunity for them really is when the tide is slack- both high and low.

Yakka's will always snag you if there's anything to swim around, hence using the large sinker to keep their swimming arc restricted, Mado's are more user-friendly and in my opinion a better bait anyway. To target them use a size 14 or so longshank and a split shot about as big as a match head roughly, pinched on about a foot from the hook. Tiny bits of peeled prawn are better than the reliable hamburger mince used for Yakka's and they are often just below the bottom of the floating section of the wharf. The western side of Cremorne Wharf has been a better Mado spot but sadly that faces the Westerly winds. When it's really cold the Yakka's are often really deep, coming up higher in the water column when the sun is up and it warms up a bit, fishing the moorings/kelp beds for them is a different situation as they often reside there

If there aren't any baitfish present in any number, like most predators, Dory won't be attracted to the area, so if you are having difficulty obtaining bait, it's a reasonable theory that there might not be any Dory nearby.

Dory should be around by this time of year but they've been really scarce the last few years, however, good years for Dory generally coincide with good seasons for Hairtail and they have been around for a good few months this year, so hopefully there'll be some Dory around soon.

Thanks Waza. Makes sense that if there's no bait, there's no dory. It was good to try something new, so thanks for the suggestion all the same. I'll try the Western side next time.

9 hours ago, Larkin said:

Hi Mike, good on you for giving it a go. I too have had 2 sessions trying - both land based. First one plenty of baitfish around and managed to catch about 5 small trumpeter for live bait - using the method waza just mentioned above. Live baited them but nothing. Second time - about a week ago - had the same issue as you, couldn’t get any live bait - ended up with a small wrasse as a live bait. But managed to hook 2 good size jackets (among a heap of small ones) while attempting to catch livies. 
I have a spot I want to try on the water - it’s a drop off - there are always tiny snappers there - very small ones under 10cm and small trumpeters. 
My issue is not knowing if there are any Dory about or not - no reports of anyone catching any - although no one is really targeting them.

Good report and hopefully you get one of these ghosts!

It did cross my mind that a feed of jackets would go down well with the family. That was until I was summarily called home by said family 🤣 I did find a good population of jackets on one of my luring jaunts. I'm going to take my daughter to target them one morning.

8 hours ago, DrRaymondSnapper said:

Maybe try some of those  bait jigs that come pre-packed. Samaki type ? Available at tackle shops and they`re cheap and seem to work well off wharves. Not sure if good for yakkas but worth a go.

I do have those bait jigs, but didn't try them yesterday as I was targeting mados (I can't believe I'm saying this🤣). The jigs are good for yakkas and herring.

[XD351]

I wonder if fishing a 4 or 5 inch paddle tail on a drop shot rig might work ?

You could fish it right in hard against the pylons using a slow jigging action and if you rig it weedless at worse you are only going to lose a sinker . Just a thought ! 

[Little_Flatty]

9 hours ago, XD351 said:

I wonder if fishing a 4 or 5 inch paddle tail on a drop shot rig might work ?

You could fish it right in hard against the pylons using a slow jigging action and if you rig it weedless at worse you are only going to lose a sinker . Just a thought ! 

Interesting idea, I can’t see why it wouldn’t work, at least in theory. From what I’ve read, in NZ I think it’s relatively common to catch them on lures.

[XD351]

Yeah I remember watching one kiwi show and they were pulling them in and after another !

[leonardgid]

 

hi mate , sorry about the huge photo  that's all i could find , winter can be quite challenging and some days impossible to get a bite in the harbour  ,  you really have to try really hard to bring them on the bite , no matter what your targeting  that is ,   if you are after baitfish  and  the only thing available  is on the bottom you must use the paternoster rig  with  one of these burley cages  and some weight in it,     stick a  bit of  sardine and prawn heads  with some old bread  , the sardine and prawn is for the oil and the smell, the bread  is something  that will bring them around  because it will break up a bit , use 3 hooks   12 or smaller  for the smallest  baitfish  that are there  and one size 8  for the leaterjackets if you are  trying to catch some of those  also ,    Dorry will take a big bait  but the best  bait are the smallest  baitfish you can find,      in order to keep the  bait from snagging somewhere   you have to use  heavy main lines  with a heavy sinker that stops them from  swimming all over the place , also use a meter  trace   no more then 20lb  so that is the only thing that will break off  is the trace  if it does  get caught somewhere , when you lower the baitfish  to the bottom  make sure that you sinker is about a metre and a half  of the bottom  this way it does not get snagged, some wharfs will work better then others  for Dorry ,  i find that they dont like hunting  in strong currents , so places like the piers  will work best   take a kid  with you and  set up 6 lines/rods for them ,  this way you can increase your chance of finding one or two,   keep on trying and you will find them   

[Little_Flatty]

43 minutes ago, leonardgid said:

 

hi mate , sorry about the huge photo  that's all i could find , winter can be quite challenging and some days impossible to get a bite in the harbour  ,  you really have to try really hard to bring them on the bite , no matter what your targeting  that is ,   if you are after baitfish  and  the only thing available  is on the bottom you must use the paternoster rig  with  one of these burley cages  and some weight in it,     stick a  bit of  sardine and prawn heads  with some old bread  , the sardine and prawn is for the oil and the smell, the bread  is something  that will bring them around  because it will break up a bit , use 3 hooks   12 or smaller  for the smallest  baitfish  that are there  and one size 8  for the leaterjackets if you are  trying to catch some of those  also ,    Dorry will take a big bait  but the best  bait are the smallest  baitfish you can find,      in order to keep the  bait from snagging somewhere   you have to use  heavy main lines  with a heavy sinker that stops them from  swimming all over the place , also use a meter  trace   no more then 20lb  so that is the only thing that will break off  is the trace  if it does  get caught somewhere , when you lower the baitfish  to the bottom  make sure that you sinker is about a metre and a half  of the bottom  this way it does not get snagged, some wharfs will work better then others  for Dorry ,  i find that they dont like hunting  in strong currents , so places like the piers  will work best   take a kid  with you and  set up 6 lines/rods for them ,  this way you can increase your chance of finding one or two,   keep on trying and you will find them   

Thanks Leonard, I'll give that a go. I like the idea of having a jacket bait out as well and like the idea of a berley cage. I think my eldest would love being on mado, jacket and yakka duty.

[Bluebenbomb]

Hmm.

Yeah, sometimes you have to chuck on a smaller bait & hook on a paternoster rig for bream or snapper so the pesky leatherjackets don't take your bait.

Good idea, should work like burley right? But it will be concentrated in the lower parts of the water column to attract the smaller baitfish, right?