zmk1962

It was still here yesterday morning on our way out .... and coming back mid afternoon ... a couple of tug boats and crane barges were heading in that direction though. Cheers Zoran

Just a jaw dropping WOW. Awesome fish. Congrats !!! cheers Zoran

Remember these well. Thanks for reminding me that was 30yrs ago 😞 cheers Zoran

Sounds awesome Luke ! Lots of tasty variety in that mixed bag. cheers Zoran

Loved the report ! ... and congrats on the Satan Jack .... Cheers Zoran

Sorry for posting old info ... and thanks for update... I don't use FB so guess a bit of a troglodyte in that area. Cheers Zoran

Thanks for the vote of confidence @GoingFishing but all my research has been focused on shifting from 2St to 4St technology in motors in the 150-200hp range, so I cannot directly comment on any of the make / models that have been discussed here, as they are engine block designs that I have no experience in or done any research on. But it sounds like @noelm has some practical experience in this class of motors. However, what I can share is the generic information that has helped me narrow the field in my search. It is universally applicable to any outboard selection. There is a perception, largely built out of all of our auto industry experience that HP is king. But in the marine engineer community there is a saying that "HP sells boats/motors, but it's actually Torque that moves them". When you dig into it, this makes a lot of sense. Torque is the twisting force that a motor can deliver and all motors due to their design deliver different Torque output at different RPM - they have an optimum RPM range for max Torque (and hence max HP). HP itself is calculated as follows HP = (Torque x RPM)/5252 ... so ask yourself, when we see all the HP numbers attributed to our outboards have we ever actually been told at what RPM that HP was generated? Is that RPM range useable to us? Have we ever actually been shown the Torque the motor produces at different RPM? Rarely if ever. But we largely focus on that one HP rating number as the basis of our next 10-20yrs of investment. When in fact its the twisting force - the Torque at the Prop - that should be our main concern as boaties. Here's why. Most of our experience is with Automobiles. And In the Auto industry, yes HP is king, because we can bring the max Torque RPM down through gearing for effective use. eg and F1 racing car with a blown 1.5L engine produces 700HP at 10,000rpm.... but you can't drive the tyres at 10,000rpm so they have gears to bring that max Torque down to usable RPM, and then shift gears to keep the engine spinning at max torque RPM with each gear driving the wheels at a rate that can efficiently transfer the max Torque to usable motion. No ask yourself how many gears does your outboard have? ONE. It's the one gear in the lower leg that takes the crank shaft HP ( a function of RPM and Torque) and reduces it to drive the prop shaft. The reduction is typically in the range of 1.75:1 to 2.08:1. For simplicity lets say this gear is 2:1 so if the motor has a Rev range idle to redline of 700-5800, the prop would be spinning 350 -2400rpm. And if we are spinning a 17p prop (with no slip) the boat would be travelling 350rpm 11.3mph (18.1km/h) to 2400rpm 38.6MPH (62.1kmh) in that rev range. Your boat speed is totally gated by that one gear and the prop pitch that you are running.... but at which RPM does that engine produce its rated HP? And does that engine produce enough Torque in the RPM range that you need for your boating - you can't change gears on your outboard to keep the engine at its max HP (Torque x RPM) while spinning the prop at the required RPM for the speed you need. So for an outboard motor it is absolutely crucial in which RPM range does the motor produce maximum Torque, because we have four critical phases in boating: 1. idle to plane (hole shot): motor 700-2500rpm: Most boats are well on the plane by the time a motor is at 2500rpm .. prop at 1250rpm 17p prop 20.1mph (32.3km/h). (For instance my hull planes at 20km/h) In boating we need a lot of torque in this 700-2500rpm range !!! 2Stroke delivered this for years because every 2nd cycle was a power stroke. Early 4St motors borrowed from the Auto industry (with Torque optimised for high RPM designed to use gears to generate low end RPM Torque) lagged low end Torque due to the outboard single gear design for many years - the max torque was too far up the RPM range to be useful in hole shot... so the industry norm was to install a bigger HP 4st than the 2St you are replacing to keep hole shot performance. Bigger HP usually derived from bigger capacity motors and hence more overall torque at the low end. We had to oversize the 4st to preserve the Torque required for hole shot -- and then that brought in the oversized motor weight consideration. 2. Plane to midrange (ride the wave): motor 2000-3000rpm. This is where offshore boaters need torque to keep the boat on a plane on sloppy broken seas, either to climb waves or control coming down the face. Motor 2000-3000rpm is 1000-1500rpm at the 17p prop ie effective speeds of 16.1mph(25.9km/h) to 24.2mph(38.8km/h). A typical boat can't do more than that speed in broken seas - your motor needs to deliver the torque you need in this RPM range to maintain control. 3. mid range: motor 3000-4000rpm: This is typically cruising speed. The boat is now on a plane and as fishing boaties we want max economy (efficiency) and optimum cruising speed (17p prop no slip, motor 3000rpm, prop 1500rpm 24.2mph (38.8km/h); motor 4000rpm prop 2000rpm 32.2mph (51.8km/h)). If we were towing skiers we'd want more torque in this range as well. 4. top end: motor 4000-red line (typically 5800-6000 rpm) ... at these RPM ranges with that 17p prop you are travelling at 60+ km/h ... may be of interest to the US lake fisherman, but how many times do conditions allow Aussie offshore boaties do these speeds? But interestingly thats the RPM range at which many outboard manufacturers rate their max HP! In my case - completely irrelevant. So putting all these thoughts together, and setting aside engine weights for the moment, a 60HP engine of the right design may actually produce the same or more usable Torque than another vendors 70HP engine in the RPM range that you do most of your boating. You may be sacrificing some top end performance but it would be the better choice for your most common boating experience. BUT sadly all this analysis requires you to get your hands on Torque to RPM data for the engines you want to compare. ???? In my case, I searched for months and found that it actually exists in the US boating community - it seems there is a very competitive spirit still in the US and the different manufacturers benchmark competitor outboards and actually publish HP and Torque curves at trade show and such. There are many forums where avid boaties photograph and share this type of data. Here's an example of some 150HP comparisons: In the above example, the 4St Merc improved the low end RPM torque over a 2st design by some 20-30% in the early planing RPM range, by specifically building a marine 4st engine. Torque is force x distance (lb.ft, Nm etc). They created more force by increasing the capacity of the engine cylinder (more volumetric fuel to explode) and increasing the distance from the crankshaft - a bigger lever - hence generated more low RPM torque for hole shot. This is still a 4St design where each cyl only generates power every 4th cycle - it burns fuel every 4th stroke and there's the 4st fuel economy. Put simply this motor throws more metal around further from the crankshaft. This engine in several independent tests (Perth, Melb, Bris) on different manufacturer 6m+ FG hulls consistently delivers 4sec hole shot performance - I don't think thats too shabby against any 2st expectation. All due to the focus on delivering maximum Torque in the low-mid range RPM. The motor also seems to generate its max Torque in the 2500-3000rpm range - right where I want it for that plane-midrange RPM performance - for broken seas (remember motor RPM determines my hull speed due to the single gear - I need to go fast enough to plane, but can't go too fast due to the conditions but I need the torque at that RPM to keep my position on the wave.) Anyway, hope this lengthy discussion is of some help. Perhaps do some googling for the engines you are considering Merc 60CT and Yam F70, and see if you can track down a torque/rpm curve for each. Or find test cases or users and get some data points: Hull weight on water, motor RPM, speed, prop specs. Remember "HP sells boats/motors, but it's Torque that actually moves them". Cheers Zoran PS1 - some other rules of thumb, obviously a higher pitch prop needs more torque to spin it, but moving 1p between propeller pitches has about a 6% variance in speed. I've done all my calcs here on a 17p and no slip. Typical acceptable slip is 10-15%, if its more than that you need to have your set up tuned (motor height - cavitation/ventilation, size of prop diameter and pitch etc). So consider these factors in setting your prop rpm pitch to speed expectation. I can share links for these calculators if anyone is interested. PS2 - this same vendor (BRP) that produced the chart above has compared, Suz, Yam and Merc and has produced Torque RPM curves that are floating out in google land. PM me if you want the links - again I have only focused on the 150HP range specifically. PS3 - and this is off OPs topic but helps with some of the decision logic on what is usable. The chart above clearly shows the 150hp eTec is a great engine - in this comparison it may lag Torque in the planing RPM phase but produces 20-30% more Torque in the mid-range RPM - if my boating included towing skiers this would have been a contender - prior to the recent BRP announcements. But in the same breath looking at the curves it's somewhat over engineered for my planned typical boating use. Just like a 200HP 4St may be oversized- I can't use the additional Torque to spin the prop any faster in that mid range due to hull speed/sea conditions. I'm sure this will generate debate which perhaps should be moved to a different topic so the OP original question is not polluted especially if the discussion is specific to my 150-200hp decision.

How the hell did all those 3 abreast Patonga trawlers miss it is what I want to know ... you'd think at least one of the nets would have got it ? cheers Z

Hey Jeff ... I note you are keeping track of numbers ... so for team BARRYCUDA (aka Zoran) you can put down 2+2?. It will be Maria and I ... with an outlier possibility for Wayno and his wife as well. Will keep you posted. BTW, maybe this should be called the FRSSS event - the FR September Snapper Sesh ! Cheers Zoran

Just got this sent to my by a fellow fisho .... be on the lookout for 3 containers if boating in the lower Hawkesbury ... I'd have never thought they'd make their way that far upstream.... Cheers Zoran

Well if it’s not approved it’s defacing public property and it’s vandalism. I’m sure the council would have a procedure to report and investigate. cheers Zoran

Great forward notice Scratchie. I’ve pencilled in - a real snapper is on the bucket list ! cheers Zoran

Great report JamoDamo ... I learnt to fish on the Georges... many an arvo after school or an early morning sesh on weekends- so many memories. cheers Zoran

So I gather you LIKE fishing and BOATING

Touche ..... yes yes you are correct - I'll concede that point - now please post in the kitchen how you make Bacon from a pig fish !!!! 🍽️ And this is yet ANOTHER example of why I like fishing ... like minded people who don't take themselves too seriously and can give and take ... the sea has a way of humbling us all. Cheers Z

!!!!! Fish please ! .... where are you fishing for bacon? bahahahaha Cheers Z

Well Maria and I are pescatarian ... seafood and plant based foods - and we do not buy any seafood from commercial operators .... so I guess we tick all the boxes ... its food on the table and a hunter gatherer thing and a sport that we both enjoy ! ...and I still have my handspear ... but the days of swimming 50m underwater in one breath are sadly long gone 😞 Cheers Zoran

Could't agree more Sam ... I may be a bit weird but I also enjoy all the ancillary stuff associated with boating/fishing. ie. getting the boat and gear ready, even the wash down and the maintenance.... and then if it all comes together - the seafood prep, cooking and EATING! I was just telling Maria this yesterday - just love the whole lot - planning, preparation, execution ... I find myself immersed in the whole end to end experience. Cheers Zoran

Very happy how it turned out. I like some firmness and texture. The tough chewy gristle like texture was definitely removed Which is what I hoped for. cheers and thanks Zoran

Yup... too true. We definitely run the risk of virus/disease contamination with the types of imports you describe. That is slightly different to the "evolution" that would need to happen for a carp to exist in salt. The carp were also imported into our waters a decade ago, so its fair to assume that whatever diseases they brought at that time are already here. By saying all this I am in no way making a case that we can be lax about importation - just have a look at what is happening to the US waterways with the introduction of the Snakehead. Cheers Zoran

Yes it would. But it has not happened in the millions of years that European/Asian rivers holding carp have been naturally emptying into seas and oceans. cheers Zoran

Ok so Maria and I gave this a go .... to tenderise our 460g of occy, we incorporated what @joshGTV said about freezing them first and then what @kingie chaser said about using sliced kiwi fruit as a tenderiser (about 1hr) before separating out the kiwi and replacing it with mediterranean marinade of olive oil, garlic, chopped parsley , ground pepper and chilli (another hour). Happy to report the end result was fantastic - there was still plenty of texture but none of that hard chewiness. Please ignore the "plating"... we have a lot to learn from KC but this was a mid week lunch so nothing fancy .... The sides were air fried sweet potato fries and slices of fennel garnished with olive oil salt and pepper. Beats a lunchtime sanger eh??? Cheers Zoran

With respect to all of your questions, I think it just depends on what you feel safe with - after all it is only you that knows how you will use your boat and under what conditions ....and in reality the EPIRB is the device you will rely on when all your other safety precautions have failed. Personally I have an MT600G just like yours and it is mounted in a prominent position near the helm but there is nothing that stipulates it has to be hard mounted - it could sit in your safety grab bag with your flares etc if you feel safer with it being there. The main thing is that you and your crew know EXACTLY where it is in an emergency and you all know who is going to do what and how to activate it... There is also the requirement that you can show you have one if requested by MSB as part of their routine safety check. Regarding your comments on a PLB, if you are boating solo, as a first you should definitely have a kill switch lanyard attached to yourself, so that if you do go overboard the motor will stop and you have a chance to get back to your vessel. If that is not enough safety for you, then consider a PLB. In my case, I never go solo offshore. If I was to invest in a PLB, then I should really be thinking about one for each of my crew.... or maybe we just shouldn't go out if the conditions are that iffy. Cheers Zoran

Great topic @James Clain ... especially the use of these noxious pests as bait. Thanks @Mullatt. I'll be following with interest. As per other posts today, the price of saltwater bait is getting out of hand. Cheers Zoran

The EFI system has a high pressure fuel pump. I guess running this dry very infrequently (first time startup, rare out of fuel situation) may be ok. But not sure I would run it dry every time - these pumps have tight tolerances- the fuel is a form of lubricant. Similarly I don’t like to run the motor without water to the impeller- most idle at 600rpm. Just kicking it over would get 20-50revs of the rubber impeller rubbing dry against the metal casing. But these are just my thoughts- a marine mech would be best to consult on this. cheers Zoran